EPISODE #227 - Lightning Interviews at Bar & Restaurant Expo

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ABOUT THE EPISODE:

Bar & Restaurant Expo is one of the biggest industry trade shows of the year. Attendance at this year's event was close to 12,000, and the energy was electric. I was out there in Las Vegas giving two talks to the crowd... but I also had the opportunity to podcast live from the trade show floor. I did a series of lightning interviews with some vendors, sponsors, and operators in attendance. 

If this episode gets you excited for next year's show, then GOOD! I'll be there and I hope to see you there as well. If you have any questions, then please reach out. It's one of my favorite trade shows of the year; an event I love returning to time and time again! 

IMPORTANT LINKS:

• SpotOn - https://www.spoton.com/chip
• KickFin - https://kickfin.com/demo/
• Uptown Hospitality Group - https://uptownhospitality.com/
• 7Shifts - https://www.7shifts.com/restaurantstrategy
• Pursuit of Hoppiness - https://redmonkeydowntown.com/
• Base Camp Pizza - https://basecamppizzaco.com/
• Rev Ciancio - https://www.linkedin.com/in/revciancio/

TRANSCRIPT:

CHIP:
So, let's see a show of hands. Who out there? Uh, just attended Bar and Restaurant Expo. Uh, if you can't see me, I got my hand raised. Uh, I just got back from Las Vegas where I was on stage twice, giving two different talks at the Bar and Restaurant Expo. It happens every year late in March, and it's a great opportunity for owners, operators all over the world to converge on this great city, uh, to, uh, to, to try and better themselves. So it used to be called the Nightclub and Bar Show. It definitely has sort of a, a nightlife tilt to it. Uh, but you can't, uh, you can't beat the energy. It is, uh, it is exceptional and again, everybody is sort of converged there to try to better themselves. It's really unique layout because it's a three day event and the first day the trade floor actually isn't even open.

It's all just panel discussions and talks and masterclass workshops. It was awesome. Again, I gave two different talks there, but on the second day that I was there, uh, on the Tuesday, um, I actually podcasted live from the trade show floor. Talked to a bunch of vendors, uh, some of my sponsors, and then a bunch of owners and operators who I was introduced to, to hear about what they're struggling with, uh, what they're focusing on, what they wanted to learn coming at B r e and uh, and what some of their key takeaways were from the expo. Can't wait to share all these conversations with you. Tons of great information. A bunch of short, little 10 minute conversations. Don't go anywhere. 

There's an old saying that goes something like this. You'll only find three kinds of people in the world. Those who see, those who will never see, and those who can see when shown. This is Restaurant Strategy. A podcast with answers for anyone who's looking.  

Hey everyone, my name is Chip Klose and this is Restaurant Strategy of podcast dedicated solely to helping you build a more profitable restaurant. We cover marketing operations and everything in between each week. I leverage my 20 plus years in the industry to help you build that more profitable and more sustainable business. I also work directly with operators all over the world through my P three mastermind program. What are the three Ps they stand for? Profit, process and progress. So if you've got a busy restaurant but struggle to generate consistent, predictable 20% profits month after month, then set up a free 30 minute strategy session with me. I'll get to learn more about you and your restaurant. You'll get to ask some questions about the program to see if you are a good fit for the program. Visit restaurant strategy podcast.com/schedule. As always, you'll find that link in the show notes.  

Now we all know managing costs is one of the most important parts of running a profitable restaurant, especially now. But between fluctuating vendor prices, waste labor, and the never ending list of tasks that demand your attention on a daily basis, it can be challenging for even the most experienced of us to manage costs. Well, that's where Margin Edge comes in. Margin Edge is a complete restaurant management software that automatically uses data from your POS and invoices to show you your food and labor costs in real time. Don't wait until it's too late. Margin Edge gives you tools to make decisions in the moment, like a daily p and l price alerts on key ingredients and realtime plate costs. All without ever having to touch a spreadsheet, take control of your costs, work more efficiently and be more profitable. Learn more at marginedge.com slash chip. That link is also in the show notes.

Now, as I said, today is a little bit different. I just attended Bar and Restaurant Expo out in Las Vegas. I gave two talks while I was out there and on the second day that I was there, I decided to podcast live from the expo floor. So I lined up a whole bunch of interviews to do 10 minute conversations with vendors, sponsors, owners, operators, people who had attended the show. A bunch of people I didn't even know, and I loved these conversations. I can't wait to share these conversations with you. Please enjoy.  

HILLARY HOLMES
Hi, I'm Hillary Holmes, operator and residence at Spot On. It's been the last 20 years running restaurants before deciding to join the hospitality technology field.

CHIP
Excellent. Glad to have you here. Uh, I think I know the answer to this, but tell me, is this your first time at Bar & Restaurant Expo?

HILLARY
It is not. I've been here for three years in a row now and absolutely love every single opportunity to come.

CHIP
So as you come into the show, so you're obviously here with spot on. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. Um, I think a lot of people come for different reasons. Uh, two bar and restaurant experts, one of the big shows, uh, the National Restaurant Association Show being the one big big one. This probably being a sort of a second to that. Um, what do you think brings most operators in?

HILLARY
So when I think about the Vegas bar and restaurant show for operators, it's a phenomenal opportunity to see what new things are happening. Cutting edge opportunities around either tech offerings for your guest, even unique alcohol samples, every single aisle you go down.

CHIP
Yeah, it is what used to be the what the nightclub and bar show. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. Um, it's interesting though because it's, even the layout feels different than last year because the, the vendors change and all of that, which is sort of makes sense. But, um, it was interesting to just see it as we were walking through. So talk to me, um, from the vendor side cuz you're here with spot on. So what's a particular focus to you throughout this show and sort of how you've been relating to, uh, the different operators who sort of swing by your booth?

HILLARY
Absolutely. We love seeing the opportunity with learning sessions and then every time an operator comes up, we're trying to identify what challenges they're facing and how we can constantly evolve to address those like pain points that they have. Yeah. Learning from them while simultaneously just educating, it's not really a sales op, it's education.

CHIP
Yeah. I mean that's the cool that you mentioned this, so I'll, I'll sort of lean into it. It's the best part about this show, I think because education is such a big deal. It's a three day show, so it takes place, uh, at the end of March every year, uh, Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, Monday. There, the trade floor, the expo floor is not open. It's all just like workshops, breakout sessions, speaker sessions. I was here yesterday, I gave two talks, tons of people giving talks mm-hmm. <affirmative>. And I think education is a really, is one of the reasons why people come here. Which it does make your job easier cuz you don't have to sell. It's just sort of listening to people understanding what they're dealing with and seeing if you've got the solution for it.

HILLARY
Yeah. Yesterday we were part of a panel as well on maximizing profits and it was great because again, it was just education, no sales, no pitch. Yeah,

CHIP
Yeah, for sure. Talk to me about, uh, so we're about halfway through the show at this point as we're recording this, talk to me. Give me three key s that you've already had. I mean, you've been doing this for a while, but like, what sort of resonated with you? Because every time I sit on a panel I'm like, oh, I, here's something different, even if it's people I know. So gimme just a couple of takeaways already as you're, as you're sort of here.

HILLARY
Um, I love that the Vegas show has really pushed marketing scopes this year, which has been a new and interesting like view, not just, oh, cut your cost, fix your menu. Marketing is a big one. Um, a lot of social media opportunities and people discussing what that looks like and then a lot of great collaboration between people on the floor. So we're finding different companies choosing to partner with each other and finding ways to showcase how to work together and build one centered stack that will help a restaurant.

CHIP
Yeah, and I think it's interesting cuz we were talking about this literally right before we hit record here. The, the tech stack is real. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, we hear about it all the time and operators need a lot of different pieces and I think there's a real appetite here. Um, I can feel it some I appreciate you saying it where you need to make sure that all the stuff they need talks to each other, fits in and helps them actually do what they need to do. I, I think it's really

HILLARY
Cool. Nobody wants to waste time manually changing information or moving stuff from one system to another. If you can just have things that talk.

CHIP
So my wife is in sales and so she does a lot of these trade shows. She's on another side, she, uh, sells a SaaS platform to fitness studios and she always loves when she comes back and they do their sort of postmortem mm-hmm. <affirmative> because she's like, we talked to so many, all the cold calls she does, all the demos she does, she's like, still, I talk to so many different operators in rapid fire that I come away with, um, with a better understanding of sort of what, what they're dealing with in this exact moment. I know you haven't been on the floor for very, very long, but what do you think or what have you heard is like, what are people struggling with like in this very moment?

HILLARY
You're absolutely right about connecting with a lot of operators. Last year I think we talked to 2100 operators in two days and it was just infamous this year. Like I said, we haven't been on the floor superbly amount yet myself, but I'm hearing people talk about labor challenges in front of them. Yep. We already talked on how the tech works to each other and how they're combating all of the inflation right now. What are some different creative ways? Because you cannot raise your prices 8% every year just because your food costs went up. Yeah. So looking at unique perspectives to address those pain points,

CHIP
I sort of agree and disagree. Yeah. Because, you know, I did this talk yesterday and my first slide is, uh, it says inflation mm-hmm. <affirmative> and it's a stack of money flying away and like people have like, you know, trying to hold it down like they're trying to hold down the balloons in the Macy's day parade. And, um, I said, who's afraid of inflation? I said, everybody raised their hand. I said, I'm not afraid of ifl, I'm not afraid of inflation. I think you're afraid of inflation because you're afraid to participate in inflation. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. And in order to succeed the costs get passed along at every step and then we end up feeling for our customers, our guests, which is understandable. This is the best part of the, the people who are in this industry. But if you don't pass that on, all you're doing is subsidizing your meal. I agree. All you're doing is reach into your pocket and say, it's okay. I I'll pick it up. Yeah. I'll pick up this part of it. And I, I wish, cuz I think we'd all see inflation as not a good thing, but certainly not a bad thing. It's just, it's just what it has to happen.

HILLARY
Yeah. It is what it is. And I think being adaptable, I I love variable pricing for that opportunity. Mm-hmm. <affirmative> because like, hey, you can combat this based off of what's happening from literally day to day, hour to hour, week to week and protect your business and grow your bottom line

CHIP
I can't wait until we really get into this dynamic pricing. I get into so many fights of people on TikTok about it. Oh. They're like, oh, you just, you don't wanna gouge people. I said, no, it's a basic demand curve. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, you all took e econ. Right. It's a bait supply and demand. This is, uh, airlines do it. Broadway shows do it, hotels do it and you, you're okay with it.

HILLARY
Well we used to just call it market price. Remember that like next to the king crab, next to the stage like it's market price. Yeah. It's the same concept. It's the same concept.

CHIP
It's a great, it's a great point right. That you got. It's like, no, no, this is what the lobsters were today. So that's how much the, the lobster is. It's a great point. There's nothing wrong with saying these tables are more in demand. Right. Alinea famously in Chicago, it's been doing that for about, I don't know, seven or eight years now mm-hmm. <affirmative> right As they rolled out talk and they said, yeah, a we, you know, a, a dinner right table on a Wednesday night is about whatever, $60 cheaper than that same table on Saturday night, but we've got more demand for the table on Saturday night. We do it because we can. And I think it's okay. And I think people happily pay that cuz they go, yeah, you know, I know there's a deal on Wednesday, but it's gonna be tough to get me, uh, to get outta work in time to get the sitter on a Wednesday and they got homework and, and the kids got soccer. So no, let's just go on Saturday. It'd be easier that way. Um, and it's okay. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, it's okay to charge for that.

HILLARY
I agree. I agree...

CHIP
I love this conversation. Okay. Uh, a couple of uh, rapid fire questions here. Uh, before I let you go, uh, tell me, uh, about the last great meal you had.

HILLARY
So I took my father-in-law out for his 70th birthday to a place called Bourbon Steak. It is on the top floor of this big hotel in Nashville. And of course you just have this beautiful view all around you. I've spent way more money than I should have had on the 70 year old man, but it was worth it <laugh> because you have great bottles of wine. We had a table carving of our stakes. It was honestly fantastic.

CHIP
Awesome. Um, what's the last great hospitality touch you've had?

HILLARY
Hmm. So I think hospitality is all about meeting your guests where they are, seeing what it is that they need to have that experience. Um, I don't wanna go back to Bourn Steak, but I'm about to go right back to that same thing. We were looking at a wine menu and their sommelier came out and just chatted wine for at least 20 minutes with us. It wasn't a do this, here's that. Like, made great conversation with my father-in-law about where he's from in England and what kind of wine he loves and why he wanted to go with this one versus that one. And it was a fantastic opportunity to just connect.

CHIP
Love it. Um, alright. Last question. Look, five years down the line, what do you think is coming that other people might not see coming?

HILLARY
Hmm. Working in the tech space, I'm always very forward thinking on opportunities to embrace technology, to support team members. We already see handheld and, and robot servers coming around. I think there's more opportunity to see that increase of tech in the spaces even pushing into the fine dining where they don't want it. And I think that's the one that everybody's afraid of is fine dining, getting more and more technology. I think that's the area that's going to start

CHIP
Adapting. I think it's fascinating. The best part of what you just said is they Yeah. And nobody can define they like cuz they don't want it. Yeah. Who the old guard? The staff, the owners, the guests. And I think if we really clarified that, we'd find that there's a lot more, uh, there's a lot more room than we would like to believe. Agree.

HILLARY
Oh, absolutely. I had a great conversation about QRSs yesterday. Cause it was like, oh, the guests don't want it. I was like, well, data says they do. Data says they spend 24% more per check and they tip better. So data says your guests are okay with this.

CHIP
It's the, I was here last year at b r e and I was giving a talk and one of the case studies I used was the famous McDonald's case study. When they rolled out the kiosks, nobody wanted to do it. They, they finally did it to try and cut labor. Didn't cut any labor and yet all the other wins they got net promoter score without the guest, uh, satisfaction was better increase, uh, spend per order. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, um, they were able to, uh, increase their attention, uh, because they were able to rotate their people. So it wasn't people at the register all the time doing these really boring sort of menial tasks, take an order, process payment, move on, take. They were able to like, help clean, make small talk, and in the end everybody sort of ended up winning. No, it's McDonald's. I, I get it. Yeah. But like, I think there's so much room here.

HILLARY
I agree. And like I said, for me when I say fine dining, I think just in general, the old guard, the owners, the operators, getting them to see what a benefit they could have if they were willing to give it a try.

CHIP
And what's amazing is that we still don't have that, there's still resistance here. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. Right. Even as we're right. I can't find staff and I'm over on labor. But both those things can't be true. You, you, you can't be, you can't be both. You can't be understaffed and six points over on your, on your, uh, on your labor cost. There's so many solutions there to, uh, to, to combat that. Um, I just, uh, all I can do is laugh at it.

HILLARY
Oh no. I love tech solutions. Gimme the problem. I'll give you a spot,

CHIP
<laugh>. Yeah, for sure. And spot on. Uh, obviously does a really good job there. They've been a sponsor here of the show for, uh, quite a while now. They're a sponsor. I will say this, I say it often. They're a sponsor because I think it's a great solution. Um, I seek out my sponsors, uh, because they're relationships and I recommend the software anyway. So, uh, listen, Hillary, I appreciate being here. Thank you so much for taking

HILLARY
Time. Oh, thank you so much, chip. Have a great rest of the day at the show.

**********

JON MITCHELL
Hey, I'm, uh, Jon Mitchell, VP sales at Kick Fin. I oversee our sales team and make sure that what we're saying is resonating.

CHIP
Uh, kick Fin is, uh, uh, sponsor here of the, uh, restaurant Strategy podcast. Um, I love what they do. We'll get into that in a little bit. Uh, we had Brian, one of the co-founders on the show in a past interview. Uh, I just think it's a really compelling solution. Um, and I love that they are here at Bar and Restaurant Expo. Is this your first time at

JON
This? This is my first time at this behemoth of an expo. Yes.

CHIP
What do you think so far?

JON
I think when you can get through the smoke screen and the bright lights and the disco balls and the drinks everywhere you meet. Some, uh, phenomenal down to earth operators, which are the people that I enjoy speaking with most

CHIP
Yeah. I I think this is a really interesting blend. The marriage of operators and vendors. I mean, that's what these trade shows are all about, right? Yeah. Uh, it's vendors being there, uh, sort of talking to a lot of people talking solutions, vendors, uh, then operators checking a lot of things out. But there's a different energy at this show. It used to be Yes. The nightclub and bar show. Yeah. And so I heard there are bars everywhere. There's like, you know, so you don't just get, Hey, kitchenwares and Equipment and Smallwares and, and Tech. You also get like, people who make floors for nightclubs and smoke machines and sort of confetti blasters, and all of these things are for sale and it takes on a different, uh, it takes on a different, um, tone. Yes. And it sort of helps everyone, everyone just sort of like loosens their tie. Yeah.

JON
Which is cool. Yeah. Agreed. Uh, no better place to update your tech stack and get some new stools.

CHIP
Alright. So what's the number one thing that you are focused on over the course of these next few days at the show?

JON
Speaking one, one-to-one with restaurant operators and managers. Uh, by far and wide, the most valuable and productive conversations I ever have in this field are sales in general are connecting with people on a one-to-one level, problem to problem, solution to solution. Uh, and things have to make sense. And I, I can't get an accurate understanding of what makes sense unless I'm having meaningful, productive, and honest trust-based conversations that have nothing to do with sales and everything to do with what matters to you most. How can I help you with your margin, your bottom line? What problems are you facing now from a staffing perspective, menu perspective, whatever it is, I want to talk about that. Yep. So, so I understand who I'm speaking to.

CHIP
Yep. Uh, and again, as we're recording this, uh, still sort of early in the show, trade floor just opened, uh, not too long ago, but, uh, have you had conversations with operators so far early in the day? Are you, what are you sort of sensing from them as they sort of get underway

JON
Here? Yeah. You know, I have spoken to a few operators and it's always, I really, really enjoy, uh, explaining what Kick Fin does. And I, and I always bring it back to you, Hey man, when you first got into this industry exactly the same way I got into this industry, it was because we wanted cash at the end of our shift. That's all. That's what, that's what we want. We want to put gas in our car. We want to go out and party with our friends. We want to pay the bills. We want to go out and do live our lives. At some point in the last 10, 15 years, it became payroll heavy, which no shot against payroll whatsoever. It's a, it's a necessary solution in a lot of ways, but it negates that immediate feedback that employees crave and love about this industry in the first place. So connecting with the managers and operators like that saying, Hey, we're bringing cash back without the cash. Yeah. Without that headache.

CHIP
Yeah. There's some immediacy there, which, uh, for many people in the industry is, uh, is a definite bonus. Yeah, for sure. Um, talk to me about some of your takeaways now here. It's your first time here, so it is like eyes open. So what are some of your takeaways just sort of being in this environment for a couple days so far now? Well,

JON
I was at MURTEC, uh, a couple of weeks ago and I've been to a few other shows apart from this one. And this one is just energy. Yeah. There's an energy out there. It's just, it's really, it's kind of wild. Yeah. You know, it's kind of fun. It feels like Vegas. Yeah.

CHIP
Uh, it is very much <laugh>, it's very much at home here. I I what I love about that, and I love that you said that, is that for me it is like, what we do is awesome. Yes. Like, like what we do in hospitality is awesome. It's really hard. Not everybody can do it. Not everybody could do it even if they thought they could. Right. Yes. And I think it's a celebration of that. I think as operators, uh, and owners, we just get sort of beat down so much cuz what we do is hard cuz it's a people business. It's in that it takes energy and the margins are tight. We certainly know that, especially with inflation, with, you know, what's gone on with labor over the last couple of years. There's so much to sort of be anxious about that we don't take enough time to celebrate and realize we're all in this together.

JON
We are. And everybody kind comes together. Yeah. Even as they're sitting in a session trying to learn more because things aren't exactly where they want it to be in their business, they're still able to be like, there is this feeling like, yeah, what we do is awesome. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. And I think, and I look, there's all these other people, I say this a lot to my clients, my coaching clients, but we we're also siloed in this industry. And we, so I have the benefit of this because I work with a lot of different, um, operators, so I get to peek behind the curtain of their businesses. Yeah, yeah. You get to connect to a lot of different people. So you sort of see the common threads. Yes. And I think of often we take it for granted how special that is and that we get to play connector and sort of, you know, tell 'em, Hey, no, you're not alone.  

CHIP
Like, there's look these other people, this is what I hear all the time. Yes. And so when you come to an event like this, you're like, oh man. You just hear it in the questions. Somebody will ask a question in a session yesterday I was sitting in on, somebody asked a question, I watched like 200 heads go, yeah, I want to hear <laugh>. I want the answer to that. Some guy was asking about how to better market his Venezuelan restaurant in, I think in like Nebraska or something like it was in his or Utah. That's what it was. And it was like, that guy has, I'm guessing not a lot in common with all the other people in the room. And they were all like, yeah, that's what I wanna hear about. Because the, the, the problems are, are similar.

JON
Yeah.

CHIP
All right. Um, tell me, I sort of asked Hillary this earlier when, uh, so Hillary from, uh, spot on, I sort of talked about my wife. Uh, so my wife is in tech sales and she, um, she always goes to these trade shows and she meets a lot of operators and it gives her a really good snapshot of like what's going on in the moment right here with them, what they're struggling with. And she's like, you know, after 2000 conversations or 200 conversations, you, you see the common thread. So what do you think operators are, is like front of mind going into Bar & Restaurant Expo this year? Like, like what's the thing most focused on?

JON
No, man. I mean, I'll, I'll speak from, I'll, I'll speak from my sandbox here. Uh, analysis paralysis. When you look at the tech stack, you are looking at multiple programs who facilitate multiple solutions. Some can go, uh, 360 full restaurant experience, some can go bits and pieces. You can piece Mill Patch together, your effectively a technology network. And that is crazy. I saw a diagram, I think it was at Murr Tech, and actually I think I was talking with, uh, will Braley from, uh, schedule Fly about this recently. When you think of a spindle or wheel with a lot of spokes, you're, you, you could, you could, the parallel there is you're looking at a tech stack for a restaurant. So when you're looking at it and you zoom out, you don't actually see any one solution. You just see this ith overcomplicate math, mathematical formulas to get this stuff in place. We just need to say, Hey man, we know that there's a cash discrepancy at a discrepancy at the end of the night. Yeah. We know that it's difficult to pay these people, and we know that it's risky as hell to run bank runs and bring back 10, 15, $20,000 at a time. In fact, we hear about robberies all the time, uh, both for managers and staff. So the best thing that I always get from these things when we do that debrief, it's like we're solving something simple. Yeah. And we're solving something that's effective and we're solving something that is necessary to, uh, streamline operations, but also empower employees and get them that money I mentioned earlier, which is why they got into this industry in the first place. 

CHIP
Yeah, for sure. Love it. All right. I got three rapid fire questions to close us out. Tell me about the last great meal you had.

JON
Uh, clams at Speaks clam bar. Okay. Out

CHIP
Excellent. Yeah. Talk to me about the last great hospitality touch you had.

JON
You mean with a server or with an operator?

CHIP
It's however, like hospitality right? Is where somebody surprised you, you Right. That, that idea in hospitality, you talking about surprise and delight or exceeding the guests? Oh yeah. Like what was the thing where you were like, whoa. Yeah. Like, what, what was the think back?

JON
I would have to say, um, I mean, I was recently on a call, uh, I was recently, I was on a call actually this morning, um, with, uh, a prospective client. And, you know, we, we got through the sort of like a lot of the business and we're kind of like, this is what I do. This is what I'm looking for. But where we really connected was starting to tell stories about when I was back doing bartending. And I was, and I was a waiter, and I told him about, Hey, I just remember this one time I was walking out. I had a tray, it was full of drinks. One beer slipped off the trade down the front of this woman's really, really nice dress, and it was the most embarrassing thing. And he started laughing immediately, basically telling the same story. A hundred mm-hmm. <affirmative>. So we all just tell each other the same story. So I, I think my point is that the, the last great touch is discover rediscovering the commonality between humans who have even, you know, stepped foot in hospitality, in, in one shape or another, one form or another.  

CHIP
I ask this question quite a bit when I have people on the show, and what always amazes me is how little, how little it takes to make an impact on somebody. Like there, somebody basically just said, I know what you're talking about. Yeah,

JON
Yeah, yeah.

CHIP
Like, it just so little, it just takes so little. If I go back and look at all of the answers I've gotten to that question, they're not huge things like, well, when I was at, you know, some fancy restaurant and they had a dove, it's not big. It's like a little thing. Yes. And it makes such a difference.

JON
Well, that's, that's one of the greatest thing about, uh, the one common thread, uh, with restaurant operators is that, uh, effectively they're all suffering together.

CHIP
Yep.

JON
So when you're introducing a new model or a new piece of technology like I do, often they're not going to move anything forward unless they, they understand you as a person. They understand that you have merit in the industry, that you've spoken with people before them, perhaps even their peers about something like this solution. And they agree otherwise you're not gonna get a seat at the table. Yeah. So you really have to be a part of it to, to even be able to generate any kind of movement at all.

CHIP
I love it. All right. Last question. Look, five years down the line, tell me something, uh, that you think is coming that other people might not see coming.

JON
Wow. Well, with all the news surrounding ai, I guess that would be like, I, I think that would be my, the natural place that I would go. But I think what people are kind of missing, and we, it's been kind of a theme in our conversation here, is what's necessary for hospitality to survive, which is that face-to-face interaction. I think we place a lot of value on AI as it is right now, but I guess what I'll point out is that I sense it's kind of going in the opposite direction because hospitality, this industry's becoming, we're getting a lot closer together. We just survived Covid mm-hmm. <affirmative>, we just came outta Covid. We're dealing with inflation, we're dealing with uncertainty. What we have left at the end of the day is each other. So that common bond is what's gonna allow this industry to grow. Yep. Simple solutions are gonna allow this industry to grow solutions that they can recommend to their peers. Yep. Um, so, so yeah. I see AI coming in, I see robots, but I, I really think what's gonna be front and center, which may have already been, is the communal aspect of hospitality.  

CHIP
No, I don't, I think as a whole, I, I don't think we've gone far enough. So Yeah. Five years from now, I think our survival really, uh, does, uh, does rely on that. Listen, appreciate being here. Thank you. Thanks

JON
For having me. Cheers.

**********

KEITH BENJAMIN
Chip, what's going on? Keith Benjamin, owner, founder Uptown Hospitality Group based in Charleston, South Carolina. Uh, we own Uptown Social Share House and Bodega started in New York City about 30 years ago, uh, with eight locations up there, four in Chicago. Uh, and we just opened downtown social in New York City and the East Village. So we got a lot going on and, uh, excited to be here in Vegas for the week.

CHIP
Awesome. Uh, I'm guessing this is not your first time at bar and restaurant?

KEITH
It's not, it's actually my first time in about six years. Okay. Uh, it's good to be back. Obviously Covid, you know, wreaked havoc. Um, we were opening restaurants in Charleston. Um, lot's been going on, but, you know, it's, it's really good to be back.

CHIP
And you were there when it was branded originally, right night. It was the nightclub and Bar show,

KEITH
Correct. Yes. Yes.

CHIP
So what's your impression now, Kevin, come back after the rebrand? Is it the same, is it better or different?

KEITH
You know, it's got similar vibes, you know, there's a lot of action out there. Um, a lot of people. Um, you know, but it's, it's a great networking experience for us and, um, really, you know, wanting to grow as quickly, uh, as we are. It's, it's good to see other folks in the industry who are doing it, you know, in a similar way.

CHIP
Yeah, for sure. So when you come to, uh, an event like this, this event this week Sure. Talk to me about sort of what's your focus as you come into this week to sort of be a part of the show? What are you guys, I mean, everybody's struggling with something. Sure. What are you guys struggling with as an organization? And so what do you, what sort of solutions are you looking for? What's, what's your focus as you come into this?

KEITH
Yeah, for me, I, I always look for any way possible to get better. Um, and I think for us as a group, um, we've struggled, uh, to get into the right technology space. Okay. Um, our industry has grown, uh, leaps and bounds over the past several years. And, um, we've, as a group dating back to 1991 in New York, always had our way of doing things. I think, you know, we're in this industry, a lot of us can be dinosaurs. Um, so really my goal coming here this week is, you know, searching out the different technology options that we have to just make us better and more efficient. Yep. Um, as we continue to grow, you know, whether it's point of sale systems or inventory management or draft beer management, et cetera. I mean, there's always ways to just improve and, you know, I'm, I'm trying to take our group to that next level through seeking out these different platforms.

CHIP
Yep. Are you doing any of the other shows this year because we're in trade show season?

KEITH
Yeah. You know, we're locked in. Um, we're locked into this show only. Okay. Um, we're in our busy season in Charleston. You know, it's a tourist market. Yeah. So once it kicks off kind of late February, early March, there's no slowing down, which is great for us. So to get out here early week, mid mid to late March, I guess it's late March now. Um, biggest, biggest event of the year in Charleston this weekend called the Cooper River Bridge Run, where 30,000 people coming to town. Charleston's a small town, so you get 30,000 people coming to town. It's a big deal. And so yeah, we're, we're locked in, you know, for the next several months. Yeah.

CHIP
Yeah. Cool. Um, you bring your team with you, is it just you?

KEITH
Yeah, no, there's, uh, I have, uh, five of my partners here with me. Um, my, my wife, a few of their spouses are here as well. Yeah. Just to, you know, get outta Charleston for a few days and enjoy the sights and sounds of Vegas.

CHIP
Yeah. So obviously we're sort of right in the middle of the show, uh, three day show. First day is, uh, no expo floor. It's all just education. Yep. Uh, then the second and third day you add the expo, the workshops, continue the panel discussions and all that. Even just at this point, uh, in the show, tell me some of your takeaways, um, being around walking the floor, sitting in sessions, what are some of your key takeaways so far?

KEITH
Yeah. The energy is, is palpable. I mean, you, you can feel, um, you can feel the excitement here. I think people are, are, uh, are just excited to be around like-minded folks. Um, you know, we're, we're fortunate. We partnered up with the, the Line Leap, uh, group who, uh, expedites entry into to bars and nightclubs late night. And so they actually are the ones who brought us out this week. Um, and they're, they're doing a fair amount of entertainment, um, capping with, with Tonight at Omnia with Loud Luxury. So for us, it's just getting around, um, you know, folks in the nightlife industry and, and, and feeling that same energy because, you know, restaurants are one thing Chip, but nightlife's a different, a different beast.

CHIP
Do you feel like, I mean, you got a, you got a sort of a foot in a foot in both camp Sure. With what you do, right?

KEITH
Yeah. I mean, we're, we're looking at Scale Boat, which is a breakfast and lunch concept. Um, riffing off of, uh, my New York and New Jersey roots. You and I talked about that a few minutes ago. Absolutely. Um, originally from north North Jersey. So having that breakfast, uh, sandwich on a, on a round roll Kaiser roll that we make in-house down in Charleston is something that, believe it or not, they've never seen a bacon, egg and cheese or a Taylor Handbag and cheese in Charleston. Yeah. So we've had tremendous success. We're about to open our second one, certainly more in the restaurant, um, game, but, but Nightlife Uptown Social Share House. Yeah. I mean, lines around the block, 11 o'clock, 12 o'clock at night, an unbelievable day party scene. So for me, I'm like kind of looking at both. Right. Um, but really our, our, our bread and butter currently is, uh, is Share House uptown social, downtown social, and, and trying to get that going. 

CHIP
All right. So you get two sort of arms of your business. Talk to me about what's the biggest challenge you face on the restaurant side then? What's the biggest challenge you're facing on the, uh, sort of nightlife side? Are they the same? Are they different?

KEITH
Very different, um, restaurants, it's, uh, actually the challenge chip for us is that we've been nightlife operators for 30 years. Um, and, and for me a little bit less than that, but, um, I got into the game about 15 years ago and, and nightlife is our bread and butter. We're, we're really, really good at that. With Bodega, it's new to us. So, so trying to scale bodega in the restaurant space is just a whole new beast. Yeah. Um, so wrapping our heads around that, and then frankly, managing the supply chain issues, which continued to exist. Um, we had an issue the other day where, where we, we got a delivery and, um, it wasn't our, our in-house bread selection for Bodega, it was a different different order, and it, it came in, um, stale and we didn't rotate it properly. And, you know, here we are on a, on a Sunday morning of service trying to serve 300 sandwiches on bread that we don't have. Yeah. So, um, you know, the, the, it it just, the, the restaurant industry is unpredictable, um, as is nightlife. And, and I always preach to my team, you know, you go into each day and each evening with a plan, but to plan within 30 minutes of service gets ripped up. Yeah. And you've gotta be ready for plan B, C, and D.  

CHIP
Yeah. Yeah. Uh, so you've been to this show before and you've been to other shows, I'm sure. Uh, the cool part about this show is the educational component, right. We're learning a lot of stuff, but I'm sure you've got sort of a system or a way you think about this. You come here, you learn stuff, you're talking to vendors, you're demoing products and things like that. How do you then make sense of it when you get back home and you're like, man, okay. All that stuff we've heard and learned, how do you think about putting that into practice?

KEITH
Well, my, my approach this year is, is much different than when I was here years ago. Um, when I was here years ago, I, I, I was in my young thirties and it was like, let's taste and drink and be silly. Yep. And, you know, not really take it all that seriously. It was an excuse to come to Vegas. Um, now, you know, with, with our, our businesses thriving in Charleston specifically, and, um, you know, I'm, I'm here, uh, with a serious mindset of, like I said, you know, earlier getting better. And so I'm, I have my, my phone on me and I'm taking notes and, and, uh, you know, it's, um, it's a really, um, serious challenge to come here and be able to narrow down what might help us going forward. Yeah. So it's taking those notes, experiencing, uh, uh, the, the, the different, um, options that are out there on the floor, um, and then talking to the folks who are putting that forward.

CHIP
Right.

KEITH
So, like, I just walked back past the Topo Chico booth. I've had a million Topo Chicos in my life. I'm drinking one right now. This is not a Topo Chico plug. We're not sponsored. But, um, you know, those guys have the opportunity to get us, you know, probably, you know, great product and marketing dollars and whatever that might look like at Bodega. And that could be something cool, right? Yep. And so it's, it's more than just like running by and grabbing a taste of something. It's more just kind of talking to the folks behind the brands and seeing what they might be able to do to offer, uh, offer to us. And Charleston is that that unique market where, you know, you can kind of be king because it's such a small town. So if you, if you blaze the trail the right way, then these, these folks will get on an airplane and they'll come see us and they'll talk to us, and then we can start making other relationships.

CHIP
I love that we, we so often as owners, as operators, uh, think of ourselves as sort of always being sold to, and there's leverage we have and key, uh, and key points in, in our, in our business. And I think it's a really good point. I appreciate you bringing it up. Yeah, of course. I get three quick, uh, sort of lightning questions. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, uh, I'm asking everybody the same three. Sure. Um, tell me about the last great meal you had.

KEITH
The last great meal I had was a restaurant in Charleston called Vernes. Uh, and it's, it's just, um, off the charts, uh, uh, it was just named a top, top, you know, a hundred new restaurant in, in, in the States. And it's tough, you know, Charleston is a competitive food market, and everyone's like, oh, the food scene, the food scene, the food scene, the food scene's great, but it's a small town. And I'm from, you know, yeah. I spent 11 years in New York City, so New York's, New York. Right. But ferns is, is top notch. And I haven't, I've now been three times and haven't had a plate that wasn't a 10 outta 10. Awesome.

CHIP
Tell me about the last great hospitality touch you had.

KEITH
The, the last great hospitality touch. Um, you know, I went to a restaurant called Southbound in Charleston last week, and they'd probably opened about a month ago. And, uh, and the owner, you know, like I said, it's a small town, small market, and so everyone kind of knows each other. And the owner, um, grabbed my wife and I, and, you know, during our meal and asked to give us a tour of the restaurant. Um, and I think, you know, restaurant owners and, and, and nightlife operators were, were, were really quick to buy someone a drink, but to really take the time and walk someone through the space. I mean, he was telling me where he sourced the, the railing for the, for the staircase and took me into a basement. Believe it or not, there's no, there's no basements in Charleston. Um, very few, yeah. Uh, because of the hurricane, uh, uh, situation there and flooding there was, they, they got some sort of zoning where they could build this basement, and it was really, really neat. They built this tiny little basement with a walk-in down there and had, had a, had a decent amount of storage in the basement, and it was just, it was just really nice. He took 15 minutes outta his really busy service to gimme a tour. Yeah.  

CHIP
Yeah. I love it. It's something that's totally free, just attention. Yeah. Alright, last question. Uh, look, five years down the line, what do you think is coming that other people might not see coming?

KEITH
Oh, what's coming? Um, I just, you know, the, the, the, the competition chip in our industry is absolutely relentless. Um, I think that, that people were pretty nervous during the pandemic, and I think a lot of folks bow out. Um, and right now, uh, you see I think another level of, uh, attacking the opportunities in our field, right? Yeah. And so I think that, you know, you, you can look, you know, uh, on any Main Street or any Broadway or any, um, really busy, uh, uh, thoroughfare around America, and there's just vacancies all over the place, right? Um, rents or skyrocketing, um, you know, it's, uh, the, the folks in our industry are unable to put together the, the, the, the amount of money they need to, to open spots. But with that said, I think that, uh, the savvy operators, the operators with capital, um, uh, that, that, that they're able to source, there's gonna be expansion, there's gonna be expansion fast. And I think that, you know, keep an eye out for, for the really good operators to make some pretty, uh, pretty huge moves in the next five years. 

CHIP
Love it. Awesome. Uh, listen, I appreciate you taking time outta your day. Sure. Sit and chat with me.

KEITH
Yeah, my pleasure. Thank you. Enjoy the show. All right.

CHIP
Today's episode of Restaurant Strategy is also brought to you by 7Shifts.
7Shifts is a team management platform built specifically for restaurants. Great restaurants are built by great teams, and seven Shifts is your secret weapon to better understand your restaurant, to hit labor targets, and to keep your entire team connected with drag and drop scheduling in-app communication, task management, tip management, and more. It makes restaurant work a whole lot easier From back a house to front of house managers, franchise owners, and larger corporate teams. 7Shifts has benefits at every single level. Plus it integrates with the other systems your restaurant already uses, like your POS and payroll. Turn your team into your competitive advantage. Restaurant Strategy Podcast listeners, get three months absolutely free. Get started at seven shifts.com/restaurant strategy. That's the number seven s h i fts.com/restaurant strategy. And get three months free and join over 30,000 restaurants using seven shifts today. As always, you'll find that link in the show notes.  

AEDAMAIRR
Hi there, I'm Aedamairr Dunleavy from 7Shifts. I'm a customer success manager.

NIMO
Hi there. I'm Nemo. K I'm from Pursuit of Hoppiness, located in Walla Walla, Washington. I am the business office manager.

CHIP
Excellent. Welcome. Thrilled to have you guys. Um, so I got a bunch of questions that I wanna ask. Uh, so I'm gonna ask each of you, is this your first time here at Bar and Restaurant Expo?

AEDAMAIRR
Yes, it's my first time here. And honestly, it's incredible. The atmosphere is electric. Um, I'm really excited for some FaceTime with our current customers and to meet some operators that, uh, are looking for scheduled software.

NIMO
This is my first time here and it has been very interesting and I'm looking forward to meeting some of the people that we currently use and we are actually shopping around for other things. So yes, glad to be here.

CHIP
That's the beauty of the show, right? Is that you can connect with your current vendors, your team, all of that, uh, and seek out new solutions. I mean, that's why people come to shows like this. And you're absolutely right. The energy is crazy here. Um, it really is a celebration. There's so much that we sort of, uh, stress over in the industry that I think it's nice to all get together and be like, but also what we do is awesome. Not everyone can do it. And we sort of all celebrate it here. And there's like cooking demos and like Guns N Roses playing and like, you know, fire breathers and like whiskey and drinks and it's really fun. All right. So first time here, that'll be cool. Yes. Have you, did you guys check out any of the sessions yesterday?  

AEDAMAIRR
I didn't get a check out any yesterday, but Nimo did.

NIMO
I did check out a couple sessions yesterday, including yours. Hey here, marketing one. That was actually amazing and I learned a couple of things that I'm gonna take back with me.

CHIP
Excellent. Yeah, that's, uh, we will get to that. I wanna do that. So I'm glad you got to do the sessions. It's one of the, the highlights of this show, and I didn't realize it until I had come for my first time, but I was like, oh, it's a three day trade show, but there's no trade floor, there's no expo floor for one of the days. It's all just education based. And it's really, um, it's really profound to sit there and watch a lot of owners and operators who show up who've paid extra for those tickets and show up a day early really to like, just listen and learn. And, and I watched I was saying earlier, you know, you watched somebody ask a question, uh, there's a guy yesterday he was trying to, talking about marketing his, uh, his Venezuelan restaurant in Utah. And everyone's like, yeah. Like they were right with him because even though what he does is so unique in such a unique market, it like it, there's overlap with, with what we all do. So I think that's a, that's a really cool thing to be able to do. Okay. Um, so tell me, Nemo, what's the biggest thing that you are struggling with? I'll say as an owner, as an operator? Cause there's always something that we're, we're dealing with as, you know, from the operations side, like you said, you're looking to check out vendors and, and see what's sort of top of mind where you're like, we need to solve this.

NIMO
Uh, okay. So as far as that, I, I think the only thing that we, a couple things that we are struggling with right now is of course the manpower that we are constantly looking for. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. And, um, the second thing is trying to find like a one shop shop all, uh, where we can do payroll and a POS system and clocking in scheduling system. Yeah. All in one shop. Yeah. So that, because right now I have to go on to four different platforms to do all of the things that I need to do as the back end person to do everything that I need to do.

CHIP
I love it. So I'm gonna sort of switch this around then. Yeah. And ask you, so, because operators are coming in with a focus with certain struggles on their mind, and, and I love everything you said, but then talk to the other side. So for you coming into a show like this and, um, being on the customer success side mm-hmm. <affirmative>, talk to me about your focus here on the show, because obviously Seven Shifts does something, uh, very specific, very special, uh, to everybody listening. I'm sure you know this, but Seven Chefs has been a longtime sponsor of the podcast. They're a sponsor because they are the best out there. Um, they did not seek me out to try to get on the podcast. I sought them out. Cause I said, I'm already recommending to you guys anyway, so why don't we just formalize the relationship and, and, and really, so they're great. That has to be said. So talk to me though about your, your focus coming into the show.

AEDAMAIRR
Yeah. So Seven Shifts is a full team management software. Um, we're ma mainly known for our scheduling component, but we actually do the full employee life cycle. Um, so we really focus in on building products for hiring, training, scheduling, paying, and of course retaining employees. Um, I think as operators, you know, the tech stack just keeps getting larger and larger and there comes a time when you need to look for an all-in-one solution. And Seven Shifts is currently building out that right now. Yeah. Yeah. Um, and by focusing in on the full employee life cycle, we're able to cater for businesses that need all aspects of that.

CHIP
Yeah, for sure. I mean, the, the software is, uh, really powerful. Nimo. Talk to me about some of your takeaways. You said you sat in on some sessions yesterday. Yes. Sat in on mine. Love it. I love that you were there. Uh, they were packed. It was, it was really cool to see so many people there. But talk to me about some of your takeaways from the different sessions, things that made you sort of think differently, things that, you know, solutions, answers, ideas. Talk to me about that.

NIMO
Okay. Uh, yesterday I attended the HR seminars, uh, session in the morning. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, it was very interesting because there are some things that does not apply to the market that we are in to, to the demographic area that we are in. But there were a lot of things that opened up my eyes as far as, uh, completing a strategic plan, uh, for the company. So that was a huge thing. That's a huge takeaway from that. And then of course, the marketing, uh, class that I attended. For you, it was the whole A, B, C d e, uh, strategy that you taught yesterday that was very interesting. And I'm definitely taking that back with me.

CHIP
Awesome. It's so easy, right. I didn't invent that. Right. What I invented was a framework to think about how we bring something to market, how we position ourselves in the market. It's the idea of positioning. It's been around for, I dunno, 70 years at this point. Um, and longer just not formally known as positioning. Um, so yeah. I love that. Talk to me about the strategic piece that you, that was, so from a, from a people side, what, what was, so, um, what resonated with you? What, what about this from the, the HR panel that you said on?

NIMO
Well, because I used to work in nonprofit for 15 years, I worked on a strategic plan. So it was interesting for me to come into the restaurant industry and have somebody talk about, uh, strategic planning. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. So I was very surprised about it because I never even knew that that kind of concept would definitely worked, um, in the restaurant industry, cuz it, it works in the nonprofit. So when they had mentioned that going out into the community, connecting with community, so you can be out there more, uh, connecting with community and then the community will recognize that you care more. Um, and then you will have more people responding to your ads or, you know, whatever you put out there mm-hmm. <affirmative>, you'll get more people of all walks of life to apply.

CHIP
So then here's I'm gonna ask is I'm gonna do a follow up. Okay. How do you make sure that that gets put into action? You personally, how do you, cuz it's one thing to sit here and sort of have the revelation and, and, and learn, but I, I think it's hard and it's harder than we'd like to admit to sit here and like, listen to all this stuff, try all these vendors, demo all these products. But then how do you make sense of it when you step away from an operations side where you say, okay, now what all did I learn? How do I distill it down and take action on that? How do you think about that? Personally?

NIMO
That is a good question. I think my next step would be I'm gonna sit down with the owner and all of our managers and explain to them how, uh, this would benefit the company. And I think, you know, if we all put our minds together and get, get their minds on, okay, this is what I'm presenting to you. What do you think is going to benefit you as managing this location? You're managing this location. How is this plan going to help you? So I think getting all of the positive and negative feedback from all of the managers involved in this process, um, that's definitely the start there. Yeah. Because, you know, I, I don't want to start on something and not have the support that mm-hmm. <affirmative> I need or we need to move forward with it.

CHIP
It's just something we don't talk about enough. Yeah. And I think it's, um, taking action. It's just not, it's just not enough. Um, just not enough to sit here and nod your head and say, that was awesome.

AEDAMAIRR
Yeah. And also all products now there's so many complexities to them that, you know, they do so much. So it's hard to sit down and actually know what is appropriate for you to start actioning straight away. Um, I think like typically a question I always ask my customers are, what challenges are you currently facing? So if I understand that okay, they're really focused on retaining employees, then I'll make sure to show them a specific feature for that. Um, knowing the three areas that of challenges that they're currently facing, I think is key to narrow down the product that they're interested in. And then also focusing in on that, solving those issues and then, you know, taking two steps back and having another challenge to overcome. Um, cuz obviously in this industry there's always constant challenges. Yeah. So, um, yeah, reflection

CHIP
It, it isn't art. And this is something I tell, uh, my clients before they go to any of these big shows. It says, sit down, everyone's gonna try and sell you something. You're gonna be a thousand vendors, but you have to know what your challenges are. These are my, so identifying problems and prioritizing those problems are really key. And that's in anything, right? And that's just me from coaching for as long as I have. Figure out what you're actually, what your problems are. So when you're approached, cuz as you're walking down and say, no, we've got this. No, we don't have, well this is my struggle, do you have anything to help me? Because they're gonna say, I I want X, Y, and Z. And you say, that's not what we do, but you know what, who does do that is over here. Cuz you've got, you know, strategic partnerships and relationships built. And if we can all just help each other, they're gonna come back to you later and be like, Hey, 7Shifts, thanks, you sent me to that other thing. It's just, it's that, that community thing, we all just help each other. But it's really important to be able to come into these shows understanding, Hey, where are we falling short. Not that something won't surprise you cause you think it will, you'll be like, oh, I never thought about that. But, um, but understanding how to, how to get the most out of a show like this. I mean, yesterday right at, I gave my first talk at two o'clock, I think there were six sessions total happening at two o'clock. So the people hopefully who were sitting there were like, I need a firmo grasp of marketing. I really want to dial this in. That's then you're in the right room <laugh>. Um, nothing worse than sitting there and be like, oh, this isn't, no I got this, I got this figured out. I need to be somewhere else. <laugh>. Okay. Um, three rapid fire questions. I'm gonna ask each of you. Um, hey Aedamairr, kick us off here. Tell me about the last great meal you had.  

AEDAMAIRR
Wow. Well, I'll have to say last night, <laugh>. Okay. Um, we went to STK for a dinner. Okay. And I love steak <laugh>, uh, steak and potatoes. You can't beat it. And I just think, you know, we're in Vegas. The ambiance is amazing. Um, there's a great atmosphere in the air here. And you know, Vegas is known for its hospitality. Uh, I know you had a disappointing meal last year. Actually. I did. Um, but the service was excellent last night, so I can't complain about that. And um,

CHIP
And luckily it's a really affordable steakhouse too.

AEDAMAIRR
<laugh>. Yeah. I wouldn't at price point. Now I will say the Vegas prices are a little scary.

CHIP
<laugh>. I, I've been in New York for 20 years and they still make me, they still make me sort of take a step back. I'm like, what?

NIMO
Really? I know.

CHIP
It was crazy. We went out to steakhouse the other night and steak was like 70 bucks and the sides were all $15. I was like, listen, you gotta get it and I get it and you're getting it. But I was like, this is, it's okay. But it was, it was really great. It was worthwhile, uh, worthwhile enough to talk about the next day and to tell thousands of people s STK in Las Vegas. Great. Had you been to any of the other SDKs?

AEDAMAIRR
No, this is my first experience.

CHIP
Oh, okay. Great. So it's definitely a thing. Yeah, it's, yeah. Great. It's a thing. Nimo, what's the last great meal you had Here? Yeah.

NIMO
Well, the last great meal I had was back home and that was our steak, uh, that's at the hop theme or one of our locations there. Awesome. The steak is amazing. Yeah. Our primary is amazing. Yeah. And that was a great meal.

CHIP
Aedamairr, what's the last great hospitality touch you've had?

AEDAMAIRR
That's a tough one actually. Um, you know what? I think there's been a lot of good hospitality touches here. Great. People are another level, I think here. Um, you know, I'm, I'm living in Toronto, Canada and hospitality's good there, there's another level here for sure. Um, I think just picking up my bad for the expo, um, the lady, you know, asked me about Saskatoon <laugh>, uh, that's where Seven Shifts is headquartered. So it was on my badge and she had never seen Saskatoon written down before. And, you know, she was like, wow, that's so crazy. And it was just such a nice personal touch. And I think those personal touches mean a lot more than a kind of a, an artificial superficial, Hey, how's your day going? Mm-hmm. <affirmative> that isn't doesn't really mean much. Um, so I think having a personal touch and just, you know, being told your name, it's, it's a lovely, it's a lovely touch.

CHIP
It takes so little too. Right. Takes so little, so little. Just looked on your badge. Yeah. It's all funny word that she'd never seen before and just asked about it. Like, just be present. Just be with people.

AEDAMAIRR
Exactly. And a great, great conversation led from that. Yeah. So, and that, and that's really nice, I think too,

CHIP
And again, here we are talking about it in front of thousands and thousands of people and it's just, it, it, that's how it passes. It's a lesson for restaurants. Yes. For me, it's like, you're gonna get talked about what are they gonna say? Or how awful it be if they don't say anything mm-hmm. <affirmative> and take so little to just put something in their brain where they go, wow. I did, uh, I I talk about these all the time. Cause I, I come across, um, thousands of them and, uh, there's one, uh, there's a restaurant that I love in Brooklyn where I used to live. And with the tea, they put the teabag in and they do these little two minute timers, these little um, uh, hourglasses. And as soon as they do it, they flip it. And so when you bring it over, you bring the cup right tray, you bring it the cup, the tea, and the little two minute timer.  And the script is always the same. This is a two minute timer. We always recommend, we, uh, steep it for two minutes. So as soon as we dip the bag, we turned it. Um, we recommend taking it outta there unless you prefer stronger, uh, tea. And then just turn it again and do it for four minutes. It's like, oh, it's got charm. It's sort of old world. Like, who does that? Love that. It was like such a nice touch, such a stupid touch. They probably got that thing for 75 cents from the dollar Store. You know what I mean? Fun is  

AEDAMAIRR
Memorable.

CHIP
And we're here we are talking about it. You love the experience. Here we are. So I love when we find those little things because it takes so little, uh, and usually costs nothing. Nemo, same question for you. Last great hospitality touch you've had.

NIMO
So last night we went to a restaurant and I had, uh, I was tasting off of my, uh, coworker's food. She gave me some lobster, uh, and she dipp fit in butter and unfortunately the butter dripped on my shirt. Okay. So our waitress, she noticed it and here I am trying to Yeah. Frantically pat the butter away. She shows up with club soda and another fresh napkin. She said, I'd noticed that you spilled butter on yourself. Yeah. So I brought you a club soda and an extra napkin Yeah. To help you. I was like, that's what you call service. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>,

CHIP
Because she was on the floor in her station just observing her guests. Yeah. And she said, Hey, how can I, cuz you couldn't. I love it. I love it. It's great.

NIMO
Yeah. It was, it was great.

CHIP
She paid attention to every detail to make you pay attention. Yeah. I love it. Okay. Um, last question. Um, Nimo kick. You kick this one off. Okay. Look, five years into the future in this industry, what do you think is coming that other people might not see coming?

NIMO
Everything becoming digital. Yeah.

CHIP
Everything?

NIMO
Everything becoming digital. Yeah.

CHIP
Yeah. I, I think that's great. I think, uh, I think this industry is really resistant to that. Um, and it's, uh, it's alarming actually. On the one hand, I think it's funny. I think we're gonna laugh five years from now that we resisted some of these things. But I think it is alarming because I think it's gonna be, I think there's gonna be a reckoning with restaurants. And I think we're gonna, especially when like the chains, what's gonna happen is chains are gonna do it cuz they've got economies of scale. They're gonna do it and then guests are gonna just come to expect it. And then all the independents are just gonna have to run and just to keep up. And the chains are gonna be, you know, 50 yards down the down the field. Hey, AEDAMAIRR, same question for you.

AEDAMAIRR
Yeah. I think, um, I think the tech stock will hopefully get a little bit smaller for customers. Um, for operators it's extremely large right now. I think there'll be some hopefully migration to one for all platforms maybe. Um, and also I think tips, tips are really big right now. It's complex. It's a difficult, it's a difficult thing for any operator to manage tips right now. Um, tip pooling, tip distribution, tip payouts. It's just so complex and people spend so much time managing it. Um, I think that there'll be a slight overhaul in tip, hopefully, um, for operators and for employees. And I think, um, hopefully they'll see some movement and they'll be better for everyone involved.

CHIP
I love that. We were out at, uh, we were out for drinks last night and, uh, it was one of the things that I, uh, that came up and I said, I don't think people realize that by the end of this decade the tip credit's going to be gone. Like, I just don't think there's an appetite. I don't think we can hold it anymore. And when that disappears, I think we have to, I think we have to sort of, sort of reinvent.

NIMO
I just wanted to add to that, how much of an impact that 7Shifts has done to us as far as tip and tip pulling goes. Yeah. Because we used to do everything manually and then we went to an Excel sheet and you know, we just could upgrade from there on forward. Yeah. But with them coming on, it has made a huge impact on our time. Me processing payroll. Yep. Uh, doing HR stuff with all of the employees. The employees can see everything that they're making. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. So everything is becoming much more transparent Yeah. With them on board. So, love it.

CHIP
I love 7Shifts. Yeah. <laugh>. Wait, love to hear that. Wait a minute. Wait a minute.

NIMO & AEDAMAIRR
Yes. Oh, oh. Oh.  

CHIP
Nobody at home can see it. But I've got my polka dot, 7Shifts socks that I was gifted, uh, as part of my little, like sponsorship package. They sent me a bunch of stuff for the tote and I got socks and I'm wearing 'em today.

AEDAMAIRR
Those are first generations. So you better keep a hold of that. I better bring you second generation now. Later today.

CHIP
I'll swing by the booth, see if you guys got

NIMO
Yeah, I just picked that up.

CHIP
Listen, I really appreciate both of you guys, uh, taking the time to, uh, to sit and chat with me.

CHIP
Yeah. Thanks so much for having us on.

NIMO
Thank you so much.

**********

RAY VILLAMAN
Hi, my name's Ray Villaman. I'm with Tahoe Restaurant Group. Uh, we have the following brands are Base Camp Pizza, Latin Kitchen Fireside Pizza, and Rubicon Pizza.

CHIP
Excellent. Welcome. Glad to have you here. Tell me, th this is not your first time at Bar and Restaurant Expo.

RAY
No, I've been coming here for 10 plus years.

CHIP
What keeps you coming back?

RAY
Always looking at the new innovative products, services, anything that's gonna improve my restaurants.

CHIP
What sets this show apart from sort of any of the other dozen or two dozen trade shows. Las

RAY
Vegas <laugh>. So I brought 12 of my managers with me this year. Yeah. Great. I bring roughly the same amount every year. And it's a treat for them. It's a getaway. Yes. They're coming to the show, but we also go see Cir de Sole. We eat at beautifully great executed restaurants that we can talk about and oh, look at what we just experienced. How does that compare to our experiences that we're delivering? Yeah. You know, it's professional development, but it's also, you guys worked so hard, here's a treat.

CHIP
I love it. I don't think, um, I don't think there are a lot of people that do that that, uh, that could afford to do that or make it a priority cuz I'm sure it is a priority. You could very easily cut that expense out. Yes. But you choose to do it. Obviously there are benefits that you've seen over the years having done this.

RAY
Absolutely.  

CHIP
Talk to me about some of those, if you can think of a couple of examples.

RAY
So the group that's here with me now, I'll just rattle off the first five that come to mind. One's been with me, uh, 20 years. The another's been with me 17 years, another one's been 16 years and so forth. So my, our longevity with our team is everything for me. And it should serve as an example if you're meeting their expectations as being part of the company. And, uh, if we're producing the result, the desired results, it's just our own internal philosophy of we take care of each other first. Yep. Before we take care of the guest.

CHIP
Talk to me about what you guys as an operator, what you guys are specifically sort of struggling with at the moment as you arrive at this show. Meaning, what's on your mind that you need help with, that you want solutions to, that you want ideas about? There must be things that come to mind as you come here to the show.

RAY
You know, uh, technology in particular is moving so rapidly, um, and there's many varying solutions. Uh, so it's important to take a look at what are we using and how does that compare to what's out there. Uh, but also we, we love coming here to talk to other operators as well. Yeah. Like, just to catch up and Yeah. Hey, what do you see? What do we see? Um, for us, uh, our biggest need, if, if I were to pinpoint an area, it's, uh, it's, it's the rising costs. You know, both labor and food have, have reached an all time high in our mm-hmm. <affirmative> industry. Usually one is lower than the other traditionally, but both are at peaks. Yep. So, uh, reinventing how we're going to, uh, meet our financial, uh, model is, is, is top of mind.

CHIP
Right. Before we hit, uh, record here, we had a, a, a good conversation cuz you were talking about this last year. You took the stage at last year's event. Uh, you were talking about sort of inflation and, and sort of what to do with it. Talking about men, menu engineering. Yeah. You were explaining, I gave a talk yesterday and the first slide on it, I, I jokingly said was, was a, a stack of money flying away. People trying to tether it down. And it just said inflation. And I asked people who were affected by it and everybody raised their hand. And I made the joke to you a second ago as the same joke I made to the room yesterday. And I said, um, who's, you know, who's been affected by inflation? All the hands went up. I said, who hates inflation? All the hands went up and I made a joke.  

CHIP
I said, I'm, I'm joking, but it's serious. I said, you hate inflation because you're not participating. Inflation is that everybody along the supply chain sort of, um, has participated and keeps egging up their prices, which makes it more expensive for us. But we can't be afraid to pass that along to the consumer. And I think what we do, so my my conversation yesterday in the talk I gave was all about the luxury mindset. And I reminded people, I said, what we do, what we offer is a luxury. Nobody needs to go out. People need food, we need water, they need shelter, they need a job. They don't need to dine out. And so we have to be aware of that and, and we constantly have to convince people that it's worth going out. They really want to go out and that, and we have to be clear about what we're selling. Talk to me cuz you've got these pizza concepts and they're sort of casual. How do you think about that, that idea of sort of value in the eyes of the consumer and are they willing to pay and are they not willing to pay? Is there a threshold? How do you guys specifically think about that?  

RAY
So there's a couple ways we look at, uh, we look at the market, right? Yep. So we're a family casual, full, full service restaurant concept. And so we look at all our competitors within 1 3 5 mile radiuss and we're just always in touch with, uh, what is the, our market offering the guests, and where do we compare, where do we fit into that? Um, we're very fortunate. We, we have long wait lists wait times to get into the restaurant. So we actually track on average what that wait time is mm-hmm. <affirmative> on a regular basis and compare it to our ability to execute on, uh, revenue generation. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. <affirmative> our table turns or internal systems. So we're, we're very conscious of having a differentiator. So I'll give you an example. One of our main key differentiator ways we differentiate from many other restaurant is we have live music seven days a week. Yep. Both lunch and dinner. Cool. And it's, cuz we're located in a ski resort town and people are on vacation. They're spending huge amounts of money on, on live tickets and rental skis and so forth. Um, so we want to be part of that vacationing experience. And so you might think of us as the hot appre ski spot, uh, with the live music, with the friendly staff and the comfort food to go with it.

CHIP
Yeah. Yeah. I love it. We were talking about that you've gotta have something, uh, they can't get anywhere else. That's the, the real way we get out of that. I think inflation conversation that, that competition conversation, um, I think is, you know, there's competition because if there's somewhere else they can get what they were gonna get from you and price is sort of the thing that's, they're gonna go somewhere else. They're gonna go to the next cheaper thing. And it's a race to the bottom. It's no way for our industry to survive. So my real very real hope is that we sort of get out of that in the next Yes. In the next year. It's the only way to, it's the only way to survive. Like, and the solution is to create something who can't get anywhere else. 

RAY
That's right.

CHIP
Yeah. Uh, that people are willing to pay a little extra for wait a little bit longer for, or go a little bit out of their way. You know, that they're willing to put up with those inconveniences still cuz they love what you do and they can't get it anywhere else. Um, talk to me about, so we're about halfway through the through thing, uh, through the, uh, the expo. Now talk to me, and partly I wanna know about the show and partly I want to know about, uh, your experience with your team here, experiencing Vegas with your team. Talk to me about some key takeaways, things that have resonated, uh, so far in your time here.

RAY
Uh, with the show or with my team. 

CHIP
Do it both. Do both.

RAY
With our team, um, we love, uh, exposing them to things outside of our current group of restaurants. Right. So I'm a big believer in let's go visit other restaurants, let's go behind the scenes behind the house, uh, walk through kitchens, anywhere we can explore and get our eyes on mm-hmm. <affirmative> what other people do. So networking is huge. Yep. You know, fellow restaurant tours, um, you gotta remember the typical restaurant manager is in the four walls of your establishment for, you know, pick a number. Yeah. 45 to 55 hours a week or even more. So giving them, uh, different experiences outside of, of our restaurant group is very important to us. Yeah. Um, bringing in consultants to talk about different topics, hearing from me every day and every week and every month gets old. I would, I would imagine it's true.

CHIP
We're also siloed in this industry. Industry And it's something that, um, uh, that I take for granted cuz I get to peek behind, uh, the curtains at a lot of different restaurants and mm-hmm. <affirmative> and that's something that I've tried to actively do over the last year or two is, is sort of bring them together. Cuz the network thing is, is powerful. Yeah. And especially in an event like this, when you said it earlier Right. The energy is palpably. You can feel it. Yeah. Um, not everybody could do what we do and what we do is extraordinary. Yeah. And should be celebrated. We, we deal with the best food and spirits wines and the best things on the planet and we bring people together, literally break bread or, you know Yeah. Share a slice of pizza.

RAY
So last, last night is a good example of that. We went to a high end, uh, Asian concept here in Vegas, uh, spent, you know, a couple thousand dollars on the team and it just, the experience, the food was amazing, but, uh, the delivery of the service was, had some hiccups. Yeah. So, for example, we arrived, uh, we got seated. We didn't see the first appetizer for 45 minutes. Yeah. And so what happens is the team is like, you know, realizing and, and they start discussing like, you know, something's wrong in the kitchen or, you know, they start Yeah. Troubleshooting and you could see their level of, uh, frustration go up and then we bring it back to our delivery of our standard Yeah. Apps within five to seven minutes and entrees within. And so because

CHIP
You feel it, you feel the, the things that, the things that you've sort of dictated, then you feel and you say, oh, that's why we've got our steps of service. That's why we have these SOPs.

RAY
It, it reaffirms what we're always continually driving home.

CHIP
And it's different right. Because they go out and dine with their families or their spouses or whatever. It's different when you're with your colleagues all together in that environment cuz you all look across the table and say, oh yeah, yeah, we're all feeling this together.

RAY
And it's just fun to be out as a group. We're bonding, uh, as it relates to the show. I ask each of them to go onto the floor and just bring back one or two ideas that you think is gonna great. Love that. Improve the restaurant in any way.

CHIP
So then talk to me about this, cuz this is my next question, which is that how do you take action on the things that you learn, on the things that you discover? How do, so talk to me about, so go, so bring back at least one or two. Talk to me about the end of that sentence. So

RAY
It's critical for an owner to, uh, stand behind what they're the behind their word. Yeah. So if I tell 'em, bring back a couple of ideas and we act on none of it. Yeah. It falls flat, right? So for example, we're about to enter our busy summer season. We need to understand what is the best product for frozen margarita machines to keep up with our volume. We, we do, uh, over a million dollars in just our frozen margarita. Love it. <laugh> <laugh>. And, and so it's, it's a critical component of our concept. And so they're out there checking out every Yeah. Uh, equipment provider for this and they have to dissect it because they know I'm gonna ask a ton of questions. Yeah. There's basics, right. How many references do you have for other restaurant operators to tell us about it? Uh, the cost, obviously installation issues, you know, and so we go down our list so they're well prepared and they come back excited because once they narrow it down, as long as I agree and the senior management team agrees with all the, uh, assumptions and analysis, then we buy the machine. Yeah. You gotta follow through.  

CHIP
Yeah.

RAY
Yeah. I love it. And, and buy these things.

CHIP
So as an owner, how do you prioritize that then? Because you got 12 people with you on the trip, they all come back with one or two ideas that's anywhere between 12 and 24 ideas, not to mention the things that you have seen. How do you collect all that and then prioritize that cuz they're not unlimited resources.

RAY
Yeah. So the team will actually discuss, will will share all the ideas collectively together, and they will help prioritize. Wow. We really need that juice machine, uh, before we get the Yeah. The silverware trash can lid that saves silverware, but so everybody will fight for their top priority. Yeah. And then we'll narrow it down and Yeah. And they each have budgets in each of the restaurants. Not, not too many independents have budgets that the team can spend.

CHIP
I think it's, uh, I think it's totally true. Uh, so much of the coaching work I do ends up being executive coaching. That's why I'm so fascinated in this. And you know, it's how do you deal with your team? How do you empower them? I mean, what you ha what you didn't say here is that, um, you empower your team and there's, there's buy-in there and it gets get a sense of ownership. Right. That's very much something Yeah. That you're trying to cultivate. And so you've systematized ownership. It's buy-in. How do we get people not just going on a cool trip, but they're gonna affect the, uh, the business moving forward. And they're starting to think like an owner thinking as far as problems and solutions.

RAY
And my team participates in the bottom line. Yeah. So the senior management team has above the GM level because we're only five units. Yep. So what other creative motivational mechanisms can we, uh, offer? And, uh, years ago we implemented the partner program, love it. Where after X amount of years, you can actually earn equity. We'll match equity, we'll let people invest if they want to put in hard dollars. So there's a combination of some creative, uh, uh, ownership that we provide.

RAY
I love it. It's one of the things that people, uh, who have been longtime listeners of the show will know that I talk a lot about profit sharing. Uh, because, because whatever percentage you decide on whatever's appropriate, it gets everybody focused on the same number that you are, which is, is what's dropping to the bottom line. Yeah. We're looking at margins yet, but to what effect. And we have to, and when you do that, I always say you educate and empower. Right. You educate them about what to do, how to do it, and then you sort of empower them to make the decisions. So I trust you, you know, your department, you make, here's your budget. This is what we know. We have to drop to the bottom. Here's the recipe to get this much to drop to the bottom line. And I empower you to make the difficult decisions to, to put us in a position to get where we all need to go. It gets them, again, this idea of, uh, ownership and buy-in. It gets it. I mean, obviously literally ownership, if you're talking about equity, it, it changes the dynamic. Uh, it changes the relationship you have with them. I mean, owners ask me all the time, how do you get away from spending 80 hours a week at your restaurant? I was like, uh, two years ago at this conference I spoke on, uh, how I went to Spain for a year with my family. Yeah. Well, and that was part of the partnership ownership. I, I would gladly give points in each of the restaurants if I knew they would perform Yeah. As well, if not better than when I'm around. And so we took off for a year only because we had this partner program in place and systems. Yep. You gotta have the, the whole thing. You know, that's, that's our trick. That's our secret song.

CHIP
It's, you know what, it's not so secret. <laugh>, everybody knows it. And just a, it's a matter of making it, uh, easy enough to, to take action on. All right. I got three, uh, three quick questions for you. Uh, I'm asking everybody the same three questions here at the end. Uh, number one, tell me about the last great meal you had.

RAY
Well, you know, uh, it might have been last year. And what sounds strange is I'm a restaurateur, but I'm not a foodie.

CHIP
Okay.  

RAY
I'm, I'm pretty basic eater, but my team goes nuts over food. Most people are foodies. But we ate at, um, uh, mama Fuco here in Vegas, outstanding meal and chili, Chee Chino Poblano, uh, uh, Jose Andres restaurant. I really love that.

CHIP
Nice. Love it. Tell me about the last great hospitality touch that you've had.

RAY
My personal experience. Yeah. Uh, of me going out as a guest. Yes. Um, gosh. Something that really blew me away with. That's, that's a hard one. Let me think. I I'm gonna have to think about that a little.

CHIP
You don't have to tell. It doesn't have to be. Well, I went to Alinea and when we were there, they, it doesn't have to be some, but the last time you were like, whoa. Really took care of me. Whoa. That was a nice touch. Well, that was a, I didn't expect that. The definition for hospitality, which, uh, I learned years ago is it's about exceeding the guest expectation. And it's about properly setting up the expectation. Right. Making a brand promise, delivering on, on that. And anything above is hospitality where they, where, where you deliver. And I think, um, again, it's one of these things I don't think we talk enough about, but how little sometimes it takes to make an impression on people. So that's why I like asking the question.\

RAY
It's, it's, uh, I hate to, uh, point out maybe something that might be obvious to, to others, uh, is I think the bars come down, especially during covid and the challenges that we had during Covid. But my expectations have been lowered because, uh, we're coming out of that mess. Yeah. Um, probably the last really solid experience I had was on Valentine's Day. I took my wife out, she's vegetarian, and we, we made the reservation, but when we got there, they weren't prepared for her to, that We listed her as a vegetarian, but they weren't ready for it. Oh. And the chef went above and beyond, got creative, delivered some outstanding dishes, and it was more their response. Yeah. Not so didn't feel so bad, uh, you know, didn't focus on the problem, they just corrected it.

CHIP
How are we gonna solve it? Yeah. I love it. All right. Last question. Look, five years into the future, what do you think is coming that other people might not see coming?

RAY
Uh, I, I would say robotics above anything else.

CHIP
Okay.

RAY
The labor crunches here, uh, those challenges aren't gonna go away. Um, I would like to see more, uh, in kitchen use of robotics specifically, uh, in this has been discussed with my team. I've actually contemplated it. But, uh, I think the first thing that should be, uh, uh, perfected or, or applied is a robotic dishwashing arms to mm-hmm. <affirmative> rack and put through conveyor dish machines.

CHIP
It's all coming. Listen, I appreciate you taking the time to sit and chat with me. Enjoy the rest of the show.

RAY
Appreciate it. Thanks so much.

**********

REV CIANCIO
Hi, my name's Rev Ciancio. Uh, if you ask my mom what I do, she would tell you that I put pictures of pizza on the internet. <laugh>, she's not entirely <laugh>, she's not entirely wrong. Uh, but I'm a hospitality marketing consultant and I help restaurants for their marketing. So they literally never have to worry about revenue again. Just have to worry about making food.

CHIP
The second best description I've ever heard of, uh, how you describe, uh, rev and what he does, he said rev points at food. Yes. On the internet, I pointed

REV
Pictures of food on the internet,

CHIP
<laugh>. Uh, and we went out for, uh, rev, uh, coordinated this food crawl last night with about, I don't know, 25 different people who were all in for the Barn Restaurant Expo and went to four or five places. I don't know, I I think I bailed at a certain point. I know I did. You guys kept going on. Uh, but it was just a lot of pointing at more food. And I saw it in real life, IRL

REV
Pointing, pointing at food.

CHIP
It was great. Uh, you, this is certainly not your first time at Bar and Restaurant Expo.  

REV
Uh, it's fourth or fifth I think. Something like that.

CHIP
What keeps you coming back?

REV
You know what, uh, so I, like I go to a lot of trade shows. Yes. If you, I know you know me, but if you who are listening know me, I'll do 10 to 12 trade shows a year. So I like them. Uh, what I like about this one is I feel like they've done a really, they do a really good job of curating the education system. Yeah. Uh, uh, sorry. They do a really good job of curating the education seminars, which obviously you and I care about. But it's not just that they're highly curated, it's that the people that show up and attend those are highly curious. Yep. And it's almost like, cool, if all you want to do is like, see what the new flavored whiskey is that people are selling, cool. Then just go to that part of the show. And if you really just care about the education seminar, cool. Just go to that. And so they've done a great job of making the education part of it really prevalent and good. Yep.

CHIP
That's what I like about it. Yeah. I love it. Uh, those of you who have been listening to the podcast for a while know that Rev, uh, was on an episode of the show. We sat and talked for an hour. Uh, this is his now second time back. It will certainly not be the last. Um, I, I just love how you think about marketing, how you think about restaurants and hospitality. And I agree with everything you said is that, um, you get a room full of people who want to tell you what they know and a room full of people that are basically raising their hand and say, I don't know everything. Yep. Tell me what you know. And it's a really interesting matchup. Um, and there are very few mediums where that happens. One of the reasons why I love podcasting so much is because I think it happens there. I think it's very personal. It's, you know, you could admit, okay, I don't know. I don't know at all. And, and I'm just gonna continue leveling up and learning. But it's really special when you get 200 people, 300 people in a room and everybody's just sort of looking around at each other going like, yeah, you too. Yeah, me too. Like, I think it's, I think it's really cool and this, this trade show more than any of the others really put the focus on that.

REV
Yeah. And look, I get that this used to be bar nightclub, it's now at Bar and Restaurant, but it still leans pretty heavy to bar owners. And I think marketing a bar is actually really hard. Yeah. Right. Because you may not have reservation system, you probably don't do online ordering. Like capturing your guest data is hard when like you're pulling lines. You know what I mean? Yeah. So like, they have a unique challenge to their business model. And that's kind of the reason I like the show is cuz there's people like you and I are like, oh, we know how to get around those things.

CHIP
It's interesting, right? Because 30 years ago, 40 years ago, uh, you know, it was my impression, right? It just sort of opened up your doors. You put your restaurant, your bar on a, in a cool area on a well, well-trodden street. And people will come in and we'll just do that every day and people will come in and we just sort of trust it. And I don't trust anything. I, I always say, I wanna put my finger on the scale, just put my thumb on the scale. I wanna make sure they find us. I wanna make sure they come back. I wanna make sure they go tell other people about it. And it seems like that has gotten harder and harder and harder. 

REV
Um, like harder to get the attention or harder to do?

CHIP
I think both.

REV
I think it's harder to get the attention. And we know this because it's saturated. There's more stuff, there's more good stuff, which is a great Right. It's a, it's an embarrassment of riches for all of us who wanna go out and dine. But the other piece though isn't so intuitive. So talk to me. Why, why is it harder to do, I think? Right. So you made a good point. It used to be you opened your doors. Well, I mean, like look, I own a bar in 2010 in New York City and there was some tech happening, but really our marketing plan was, uh, post Instagram, <laugh>. Yeah. You know what I mean? Yeah. Make some friends. Um, but now I think like the attention is so divided. Like people are on their phones a hundred times a day and I'm in email and I got text messages and they're like, so many ways that you could communicate with a person. And there's only so many, uh, brands that somebody could pay attention to in a day. And, and that's not just how many bars or restaurants, it's also like shoes and soap and cars and insurance. Like, there's just so much information thrown at people all day long to ask an independent operator to maximize the use of several of those channels is like, Hey, learn something here. You never thought you were gonna have to learn. Yeah.

CHIP
<laugh>. So as you come to the show, cuz you are, uh, on stage, uh, curating panels, giving talks, all of that. So we're certainly part of the show. Um, but you go to a ton of these shows, so you're, you're also coming as just a visitor, just an attendee just trying to learn what, and you're also an operator.

REV
Yeah. I own a restaurant

CHIP
You own a restaurant. So talk to me about what your particular focus is. And maybe we split it up and you say, what are your three focuses based on each, but what's your focus coming into this show? What, what are you trying to learn? What are you struggling with? What are you trying to get more clarity on?

REV
So I go to a, a variety of shows and they're all aimed at different levels. So some of the shows I go to are aimed at like enterprise level, McDonald's type place. And some are like independent operators. Some are bar, some are trade, some are com. So I go to all of the shows at a show like this, I'm typically not gaining new tactics or nuggets of knowledge. Uh, I, I say this and I'm hoping I don't come out like a egotistical jerk, but I kind of know more than a lot of people in the room here. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, my experience is, is beyond what a lot of the people room here versus like a restaurant leadership conference. Like, I don't know what it's like to run Domino's Pizza. Yeah. Like, I'm gonna learn something there. Yep. Uh, so for a show like this, what I'm looking for is I want to see what are the things that restaurants are trying and bars are trying to figure out mm-hmm. <affirmative> what is it that I know that can help them? Or what is it that I don't know that I need to learn so I can help them? So I love that. So I have this here where I'm coming in and I'm watching what people are concerned about and I'm looking at what they're prioritizing because that's helping me think about how I can help them.

CHIP
Yeah. So then from an operator's perspective, what, I mean, we went to your restaurant, it's fantastic. Thank you. Um, no thank you. All right. God bless. It's, uh, it's fantastic and it seems like it's doing what it does really well. And we had talks about what that becomes in the next iteration or is it just a bunch of those everywhere because it's obviously made that the food's delicious. Um, it's well differentiated. It's, there's some cool things you're doing, especially with the integration of technology there. From an operator's perspective, what's on your mind as you walk into the show?

REV
Um, I am probably, okay. I have a unique perspective <laugh> because I'm on the phone with companies like Taco Bell and kfc. Like I get their thing and I'm trying to do what they do at an independent operator level using technology that's not designed to do that. I'm stretching the limits of what the technology can do. Yep. So I'm in here looking for, has somebody figured out the stretch? Is there new technology that has figured out the thing a little bit better? Like thing that helps me operate like Pizza Hut as an independent operator, I'm looking for that. Yeah. That's probably the top one thing I'm looking at for, sorry, as an operator. Yeah. What new here is gonna help me solve my problem. And again, I'm a marketer, I'm not the operator, so I'm not looking at mixers, I don't care about managing staff like this's just not what I do. Right. So I've again, very limited view.

CHIP
Yeah. No, no, no. But I love it. I think those are two, uh, perfect answers. Um, tell me about your takeaways so far, because I know you're a sponge when you sit in these things. And I know even when you're on a panel, things will catch you by surprise. You've said to me, you're like, yeah, I was doing this panel and they said something. I was like, whoa. Like I didn't know he was gonna say that. Or I never thought about that. A panel that you put together and are curating and are moderating. So talk to me about just so far now, two days into the show, what do you, uh, what are some of your takeaways?  

REV
Um, I would say, so we're halfway through. So the, these thoughts have not fully baked out, but I think the biggest takeaway I have right now is it's inspiring to see independent operators really being proactive about solving problems that aren't necessarily like, how do I get the drink to you faster? Or, you know, how do I hire, like, they're literally thinking about the type of stuff that you and I help with. Um, and so my biggest takeaway is that there's a thirst for knowledge and proactive problem solving in this business that I haven't seen until this point. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. Uh, and I want to find ways to help those people get the information they need to make their business. Now here's my takeaway, right? I didn't get to it yet. <laugh> mm-hmm. <affirmative>. So that's the thing I'm seeing happening. Yeah. And what I'm seeing those people do is look for how-to tactics without having to answer the question first of why, why am I using Instagram? Why am I buying new pos? Why am I worrying about this thing versus that thing? Like, you have to answer the why question first. And ultimately it has to be how does that help the guest get what they need easier, better, and more fun when you can answer those questions, a lot of the other questions kind of answer themselves.

CHIP
One of my favorite interviews, uh, that I've ever heard was when Nicos was on the Tim Ferris show. He gave two interviews, actually. They're both genius, but the first one was really special. And he says, I, I'm not a restaurant tour. I don't know, I never aspired to own a restaurant. He just met Gra ATTs. So Nick Aconno and Gra ATTs own a linear restaurant and the Aline Restaurant group and all the things that they have. And he said, I, I didn't wanna do it, but I knew I wanted to work with that guy and I knew I wanted to do, I wanted to give him a stage and I knew that we could be very successful and do something really special with that guy. He said, but I went through, he's like, we went through the opening and I was the, uh, I was the "why" guy. Why did we do that? Why did we do that? Why do we, and he's like, and I just asked why everywhere. And 70% of the time it was like, oh, cause that's the best way to do it. That's the most efficient way to do it. Um, he's like, but other times it was like, I don't know, I dunno why we do that. And he's like, he gives the example, he's like, you know, why do we use linen? He's like, it turns out the answer is because a nice table is really expensive. Um, maintaining a table is not gonna get chipped and dinged and, and, and sort of, you know, water rings and stuff like that. He's like, that's why, cause we can get a crappy cheap table. Just put a tablecloth over it and it feels fancy. Right? Well, that's the answer. And he said, well, do we have to do that? Wouldn't it make more sense if we invested the money up front and didn't have to keep paying linen, you know, linens, whatever, $7 per linen. And we put two linens on a table every time we seat it 20 tables in the dining room. That's 40 times we're doing that. He's like, you just look at the math and you say, we're gonna be open seven days a week. He's like, that's just stupid. I, I'd rather spend, you know, what I'm gonna spend in a year on linen once and that'll last me seven years, eight years. And he said, you know, so asking why becomes a really powerful thing. It's like the theme of the entire interview.  

REV
I had a conversation with an, uh, a guy that owns a couple of pizza shops last night and he says, Hey, you know, we, I, there's context to why he had been introduced to me. So there was like a trust factor of like, rev might be able to answer some questions for you. He said, okay, I have this crazy idea where I'm going to get drone delivery and have this system. Will you order this thing? And like, walk me through this very brilliant thing he had thought about of how to basically eliminate delivery labor. And I said, man, that's really, really cool. I said, how many shops do you go? And he said, two. He goes, that sounds like it's like a $10,000 a month system. Like how are you gonna justify that? And he's like, well, you know, I'm trying to drive top line revenue. I go, do you email your guests once a week? And he goes, no. Should I, I go, okay,

CHIP
<laugh>,

REV
The robots sound cool. Like I also grew up on the Jetsons <laugh>. Let's start with emailing your guests every Thursday morning and ask 'em if they want more pizza. Like how about just that <laugh>,

CHIP
Talk to me about, uh, so talking about like the takeaways and sort of what you're learning here, um, from all the different perspectives. You've been to the show a bunch of times. You go to a bunch of shows. Talk to me about how you incorporate that. How do you apply, how do you take action on the things that you notice, on the things that you learn? Having done this now so many times, and really my question is for on behalf of the audience, the listeners who go to these things so that they're not overwhelmed, think and say, Hey, come in here, learn. This is how you put it to action. How do you, how do you think about that?

REV
Okay, so I I have to give three quick answers. So remember I own a restaurant. I help restaurants with marketing as a consultant and I also help technology companies with demand generation. So I have three different businesses who I lean up to. So I come here and I think about helping my tech customers be better at solving problems for their clients who are restaurants. I come here and I think about what I can do to make my restaurant better. And I come here and I think about what can I learn that can help my restaurant clients do better what they're doing. So like, it's a lot of jumbled thinking. Yeah. It's also why I drink a lot of espresso cause it helps sort out some of those things. But I'm, I'm looking for like, what are the things that universally solve the most amount of problems with the least amount of work. Sometimes it's technology, sometimes it's a tactic, sometimes it's a coach. So like, yeah, how do I get there? Yeah. Uh, and then how do I share that? So if anybody here follows me on LinkedIn, every single trade show, the morning after the trade show, I put a big post down LinkedIn. Here are my five takeaways. Like, here's the thing I noticed and here's what I would do. Literally it's two sentences on each one. So that's how I share it. And then my clients get to bathe in all the other thinking. So the next two or three weeks, everything I learned here, my clients, we will do those things.

CHIP
Yeah. I love it. I love it. Um, all right, got three quick questions for you. Tell me about the last great meal you had.  

REV
Uh, it was literally last night <laugh> with you at a place called Red Dwarf. Yeah. Uh, and this is perhaps, and I've been to a lot of places. This is one of the most bizarre places I've ever been. So it's in a part of Vegas that our driver said, Hey, you're not supposed to be in this part of town <laugh>. It's like, I wouldn't even get outta my car here. And I was like, yeah, but it looks cool. Uh, it was a punk rock pirate themed, alien tiki room. Am I exaggerating?

CHIP
Yeah, I think that's about it.

REV
Okay. With, uh, 20 four-ish craft beers. And they only had Detroit style pizza on the menu. And it was, I'm from Detroit. It was one of the best pizzas I've ever eaten. It was like totally the thing of like, if you're gonna do one thing, do it. Well, they nailed it.

CHIP
I had never had Detroit Pizza, uh, until last night. I was like, what is this? This is, it changed me. It was great.

REV
Yeah. I feel, feel bad for you. I feel bad for you. Cuz the bar has now been set pretty high for Detroit style pizza,

CHIP
<laugh>. It was great. And, uh, I was asking, so before I came here, I asked, uh, TikTok, I asked Instagram, Hey, tell me where I should be going off the strip. And everybody just gave me places on the strip. It's like, I I get it. I know, I know the strip. Like we got all these back in New York, we got all these, you know, I wanted stuff that was actually good and interesting and, uh, you curated quite a trip last night. Uh, rev does this, uh, this food crawl takes a bunch of people and we just go to a bunch of different places. And, uh, so it was I agree. Red Dwarf was awesome.

REV
Yeah. The bar was set low, like <laugh>, there was like a non-descript building with a weird looking sign. And I was like, I think we all looked at each other and we're like, uh, and we walked in, we're like, oh my God, this is amazing. 

CHIP
This is great. And you know what I, I was thinking about was the hospitality, just like how great the bartender was. And he could have just been sort of like a surly, like that was sort of the vibe in there. Like he could have been punk rock, punk rock, just sort of ignoring you or playing aloof. And he was so, so good.

REV
Think about this. So before that, we were, we went to the dumpling place. Yeah. And again, in the same amount of people and the meal came, we ordered $800 worth the dumplings. And I went to hand the guy a bunch of cards and he is like, we only take three cards. Versus we walked into this like hun Rock gritty bar. And the first thing the guy says to me after, Hey, we're really glad to hear is like, should I run an individual tab for everybody? I go, is that a painted buddy? He goes, no, we wanna serve you. And I was like, this place is gonna be amazing.

CHIP
I felt the same thing. He went and came up and said, Hey, what can I get for you? And I ordered my beer and uh, and he's like, okay, listen. And I'll get a card cuz we're just gonna do separate tabs for everybody. So, independent of the conversation you had, I was sort of on the receiving end of the next part. And I was like, whoa. Awesome. It's amazing. It stuck out to you And it stuck out to me just a moment later

REV
Because he was all over it.  

CHIP
Yeah. All over it. So my next question was, tell me about the last great hospitality touch you had. <laugh> for me, that was literally, it was in the same place. The same place. The, the, the best great meal I had was last night was that pizza was outstanding and then the hospitality that that guy, that the bartender provided was just outstanding. So for me, is that for you or

REV
Is this Yeah, a hundred percent. Yeah. I would, had, had we, I had not known You were gonna, if if the questions were reversed Yeah. I still would've said Red Dwarf.

CHIP
Yeah. Yeah. It's, it's wild. And again, it was totally an unassuming place and not necessarily where you'd get out at your car. And, uh, it was awesome. They really took care of us. Okay.

REV
But by the way, I also am totally a fan of going to the place where I don't ever talk to anybody. Yeah. You know, like where there's a, I, I bang the QR code at the hosts stand. I order directly from my phone for every drink I want. And I don't talk to anybody. I'm also a fan of that. Yep. So, and I think this highlights something really important, is that if you're gonna do it, if you're gonna do the full service restaurant, you gotta do it. And I think what's happening now is that there's so many solutions, technology solutions, the QR codes, the, you know, the kiosk, the, you know, table ordering, all of that. And it's only gonna get better. The platforms are only gonna get better. The interface, that user experience is only gonna get better. Um, that it puts more weight on the hospitality. You can be a dinosaur and you say, no, we're gonna do full service, but you have to bring it. Because in three years from now, I don't think we're gonna, I don't think we're gonna accept some aloof high school kid or college kid sort of bumbling our order and all that. It's like, Uhuh just bring me the QR code and then I can, you know, avoid this. I tell this story cause it's a great example and we might have talked about it. We talk about the, um, the holiday express, the train ride. Yeah. Okay. So we do the Polar Express every year. You get on the train. Yeah. You live the Polar Express book. Uh, we go, we went to this pizza shop this year. I happen to know the owner. It was on the way to the Polar Express. Me and my kid, my wife, our friends, their two kids. We show up in pod matching pajamas when I have a pizza before we get on the train. Love that. We walk in the door and I look at the server and I know they're, these are friends of mine. I know the owner. And I said, look, we have to be outta here at 6 45 or we don't make the Polar Express, we're gonna order quickly. I'll give you my card now. Like, I've set the tone that like, we kind of like, like we gotta go on time. Yeah. She's like, okay, no problem. I'll even bring you to go boxes in the middle of the meal so you can just pack up and leave. Like, we're on board. Like we're on the board of getting us outta here. Quickly train. And then the meal comes. I can't find the server. No. I'm watching the clock tick away. And I'm like, we're gonna miss the train. I'm now walking around the restaurant Yeah. Looking for my server or a manager and they're nowhere to be found. I'm like, if the QR code had been on the table, I would've just paid. Left. All solve. Yeah. And there would've been no stress. There've been no problem. And we've still would've thought high-touch restaurant, if all I had was the QR code at the end, we've zapped down left. It would've been great. Would've not changed the experience in any way.

CHIP
A hundred percent. It's funny, I went to a place here on the strip the other night. It was a steakhouse and full service. You know, had a, uh, captain and a back waiter and they were both serving us evenly. It was all like a lot of, lot of touches. Uh, service was flawless. Uh, the, everything was paced out really well. And what was really cool is he dropped the check and he left the, uh, the little, uh, the payment machine right there. And he just left. He's like, you know, when you're ready to pay, go ahead. So it was sort of like a, like a high-end touch, like a high-end version of the QR code. I said, man, they've, they've sort of solved this. I I was really surprised about it that they did it. And so I did it. I did the whole thing. And he's like, it's all good. And he comes by and just presses the receipt button. He's like, here's yours. Have a great night gentleman. Like, and that was it. And I was like, see, it's coming even for fine dining. Cause this was, this was upscale. This is fine dining. It was, and it's coming. It's so, and I, and I watched it executed really beautifully.  

REV
We, I used to own a bar in the East Village, uh, pre Pretech <laugh>. Our tech was a processor and a spreadsheet. Like it was definitely pretech. Um, but we had a rule, no cocktails with more than five ingredients because if you've walked up to the bar ready to order a drink, you already wish you had the drink in your hand. So our mission as the bar is to get you the drink you want as quickly as possible in the most hospitable way. And like that's when all the mixology bars were popping up everywhere. The dead rabbits and all that stuff. And I was like, those are great. Not here. Not here. We want you to be drunk and having a great time. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. And look, we had 127 different bottles of bourbon. Like we weren't a die bar, we had a die bar vibe, but like, it was expensive stuff. We would not make cocktails with more than five ingredients. We wouldn't because speed of service.

CHIP
I think it's so true. It's funny, I had a guy, uh, buddy of mine, uh, on the show. He's a sort of a bar manager in mixologist down in Nashville. And he, his whole big deal is he said, I batched 90% of the cocktails on our menu. He's like, we'll have 14 cocktails on there, but almost all of them are batched cuz there's nothing that happens in the moment. And he builds his stuff. He's like, we don't use syrups, we don't use juices, we don't everything. He's got a very specific perspective. So he's not muddling. And he's like, he's eggs. We've got, he's like, we've got all this beautiful stuff in the back bar. He's like, there's a laur, a spirit of bitters that can get what I need to get from a juice from a thing. He's like, all our waste happens on juices, all our, you know, sort of spoilage, all our health code violations are from juices, fruit flies and all that. He's like, so we just don't do it. He's like, and I can mix liquor, laurs, all of that. I can batch it and I'll keep, he's like, and I can barrelage some of them. And actually they get better the longer they sit in there. He's like, and we have a system for that. He's like, so every, all his cocktails are no more than three. And he works at super high end places down there. And he's like, they're like three touches. He's like, I'd rather have the garnish be the touch. I'd rather the, and it was like, it was so, um, it was so interesting. And I've known him now for, I don't know, 12 years, 13 years and watching his evolution. And, and I didn't even really know this when we had the interview and he said, yeah, this is my, this is what I believe now. And it was just, and I have a lot of listeners wrote to me and they were like, this is like, I didn't realize we could do this. It's like, yeah man, there are no rules. There are no rules. All right. Last question for you. Uh, look, uh, same question I asked you a few weeks ago. Okay. Look, uh, five years down into the future and tell me what's coming that other people might not see coming.  

REV
Uh, I don't remember. My answer was, so I'm hoping I'm either on brand or I've come up with a new idea. Um, I think managing the customer journey is gonna be easier for independent operators and, you know, whether I throw around fancy words like CRM and CDP and uh, you know, all that type of stuff. Like, I don't care what you call it, but I do think it's gonna be easier for independent operators to help the guest get what they want in the moment they want it. And I don't necessarily mean service. Yeah. I mean, like texting in to get a reservation. Uh, AI bookings, uh, QR codes at the table, like the, like technology will actually make the service better because you can manage the guest journey in and out of store with the press flow button.

CHIP
I agree. Um, listen, rev, thank you for taking the time to, uh, sit and chat with me.

REV
Thank you for having me, man. It's really fun. Enjoy the rest of the show. Thank you.

**********

BRIAN SOLAR
Hi, I'm Brian Soar. I'm the CPO, the Chief product Officer at Spot On.

CHIP
Excellent. Love. Spot on. Where are you based out of?

BRIAN
Based outta Austin, Texas.

CHIP
Excellent. Um, that's where all the cool kids go. Now where, uh, is this your first time to barn restaurant? It can't be...

BRIAN
No, actually I've, I've been here a couple times. I've never seen it so busy though. I mean, it's busy. It's packed.

CHIP
Packed! Yeah. It's busy. I got my, I got my picture of the, the doors opening up when they sort of like, before they like open the gates and it's like 10,000 people. I remember last year I was like, oh, I guess Covid o's over <laugh>. Like Yeah. It was a lot. Yeah. It's a lot of people. It's good energy out there. Right. Great energy.

BRIAN
And I, I, I feel like folks are, are asking good questions. They seem to be really trying to find stuff that works for them, which is cool.

CHIP
Yeah. So as you're coming into this show specifically, what's, what's your focus? I mean, obviously you're here. Yeah. Um, let's talk about the product. Talk about all the stuff that you've been working on, all the stuff that spot on does and offers and all that. But from a show standpoint, from a, as you're talking to people, like what's, what's your focus coming into the show as you're meeting operators stopping by?

BRIAN
Yeah. You know, what's interesting is, uh, I actually have kind of the opposite job. Um, so if I'm doing it right, I'm actually not talking about spot on that much. What I'm doing is I'm listening to the operators and kind of seeing what they're excited about. What, what are the pains that they have. Uh, you know, obviously we've got a bunch of products. Our, our dev cycles are, are pretty fast now. And so how's it working for you? Are, are you happy with it? Um, that's one part of it. And the second part of, of what I'm doing here is actually looking at all the other players. Mm-hmm. <affirmative> and you know, we're pretty big believers that we can build a lot of stuff first party, but we need a lot of good partners. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. So going and talking to, you know, folks like, um, like Ovation seven shifts, like all those folks. Um, and just kind of seeing how we can work together.

CHIP
Yeah, for sure. Uh, which is interesting cuz you guys, uh, are sort of known for being this all in one. There's, there's a lot under the hood. Yeah. Um, and yet still there are partnerships are, IM important because people start with seven shifts. They love seven shifts and they're looking for a new pos and they like that you guys do so much else, but they really want to keep seven shifts. Yeah. And so it's in your best interest.

BRIAN
Yeah. I mean, like, one of the ways that I think about it is, uh, there's, there's one thing that I know is really, really important to our customers and, and what they care about. And that's having a flexible solution. And one thing that spot on really prides ourselves on and, and we really try to lean into is making sure that we're working with our operators to make the tech work the way that they want to work, rather than coming up with a bunch of tech and saying, adjust your workflows to this. Um, with the partners, I kind of think of it as Legos and so like how do you build the exact experience that you want for your restaurant, for your customers, for your staff? And you know, we've got great Legos, but there's also other Legos out there, so how do we make that easy?

CHIP
Yep. I love that. Um, so far now a couple days into the show, what are some of your takeaways from the conversations you've had from the, the talks you've listened to from the other, from talking to other people? What are you taking away from this so far?

BRIAN
Yeah, I mean, I, I think one of the things that's top of mind for a lot of the operators is cost. Um, and you know, when you walk around the floor, there's a bunch of things, uh, around kind of, I call it like labor automation or, or augmentation. So everything from making it easier to check out via QR code to, you know, robots that will bus tables. Um, and I think one of the things that, that a lot of restaurant owners are looking for is how can they be more efficient in their operation? You know, prices are going up, labor's going up, food costs are going up, so how do they still run a great business? And hopefully some of the folks out there can help them.

CHIP
Yeah, yeah, for sure. Um, when you leave a show like this, yeah. You got all these takeaways, things you learn mm-hmm. <affirmative>, things you learn from the conversations you have with operators, uh, things you learn from the talks, you hear from talking to other technology partners, competitors, you know, you're, you're seeing a lot. How do you think about systematizing the, the action you need to take when you leave? And it's the same question I ask operators mm-hmm. <affirmative> when we've sat and had this conversation. And it's things I'm asking you guys as well. Cause I think it's still the same. Like, how do you think about that? Which, is there a process? Do you have a process about how you take what you learned, what you heard, and put it into play?

BRIAN
Yeah. For me, one of the things that, that, uh, I think a lot about is there's so many great conversations and there's a lot of things that we can kind of do from 500 feet up. But having these conversations and talking to operators, to partners, to people like you who are industry experts, um, it gives us a deeper understanding of not just like the what, but the why. Um, and, and so one of the things that I typically do, our product managers are, uh, obsessed and they should be with, with our customers. And so I, I'll write out notes and I'll send them to everybody and I'll say, Hey, here's what we heard. Hmm. I've, I've gotten a couple of operators to, uh, give us their names, their emails, so that we can actually reach out to them and say, Hey, like you talked about these things, we're actually thinking about building something like that. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, should we build door number one or door number two? Uh, and this becomes just like a really huge focus group for us.

CHIP
How many of these shows do you typically do over the course of the year?

BRIAN
So I typically do probably about four or five a year. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. Um, and I, I actually really, really enjoy it. Um, it gives me a lot of gas because I think for, for us, the hearing directly from the customers about what they love, well, you know, caring about their staff, uh, where they're hoping that we'll go, uh, it gives me, uh, I know who we're building for mm-hmm. <affirmative> and I can put faces and names and and brands across that.

CHIP
I love that. I just, it's overwhelming to be here at a show like this and you just, you learn so much. You hear so much talk to so many people and all this Yeah. I think about that question. Um, so that's why I'm just asking other people cuz I, I really wanna know just how you do it. I mean, rev, so Rev was, uh, was here, uh, sitting and chatting with me before you walked in. He's a restaurant owner. He is a marketing consultant and he helps, uh, vendors, right. Other technology partners with, you know, uh, demand generation. Mm-hmm. <affirmative> like, so he's at this show with sort of three different things. And I asked him same kind of thing, like, how do you like switch hats and, and think about what you need to do when and how do you then take action on all that stuff? And he's got a really great system. So, uh, I appreciate the the way you do it too. I'm curious, is there anything that you've seen that you were like, oh my gosh, like this is, this is new or

BRIAN
That's a great question. Um, for me it's, uh, what's really been apparent just in the last couple of years, there's, there's a difference here. There's a, there's a shift mm-hmm. <affirmative> is that people know the technology is here more than that. They know that it is the answer they've been looking for. Like, it is the solution to their problem, to their labor problem, to their cogs problem, to their whatever it is, their efficiency problem, their table turn times their they are, it is literally, they're, they're scheduling, they're budgeting. It's, there are solutions now that answer those problems. And now they're not, they're not getting dragged in now. They're now they're on the floor differently.

CHIP
Yeah. Um, they're asking, uh, different questions than they were the last couple of years.

BRIAN
I, I think that's such a good point. And I, I think one of the things that's, I saw it a lot was there was a bunch of restaurant operators that covid hit and they viewed some of these problems as kind of point in time problems. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, but, you know, knock on wood, we're, we're kind of largely through the woods there. Um, and this is now the new normal. Like there's, there's a new expectation that they can't go back on.

CHIP
That's right. And there's something interesting, right? What was a problem, quote unquote two years ago, three years ago, is now very much an opportunity. A hundred percent. And it was an opportunity back then, and I just don't think they saw it as that. And I'm watching them all sort of wake to that reality that there's an opportunity here. And that is very, very cool. Very cool to see.  

BRIAN
Yeah. And you know, one of the things I think is actually really awesome as well is customer expectations are changing. Um, and you know, I remember when before Amazon, like you would order something and it would, if it took a week, like that was cool. I'm gonna, as long as I get it. But now I go to a website and if it's gonna be three days, I'm like, no, thank you. Yeah. That same thing has happened in restaurants and as a customer you show up and you know, I've been waiting 20 minutes to pay the bill. I've been done. Yeah. And, and you start to have these new expectations. And it's great to see folks internalizing that and listening to their customers and, you know, technology, we're, we're big believers that technology should be the solution that helps deliver that amazing experience for their customers. Yep. Um, and that's how partnership works.

CHIP
It's at the end of the day, there's uh, there are solutions to our biggest problems. Can't find people, can't find people. Hundred percent. There are now tools we can use to let us operate or profitably with less people. Yeah. And guess what? Create a better guest experience. Um, I it's just that, and that's obvious now and I think it's obvious to more and more people.

BRIAN
Yeah, absolutely. And, and you know, we, we have, um, for example, spot on, we have table site ordering. And one of the things that's that's pretty incredible is if you think about that, that business that maybe, maybe they can't hire that, that fourth server for the night or someone called in sick or, or whatever it might be. Now with, with some of the technology solutions that are out there, the staff can be more efficient, they can cover more tables. And one of the things that I grew up in, uh, a bunch of my aunts, uncles, grandparents, were all in the restaurant business. And your staff is kind of an extension of your family. Sure. So you want them to walk home with more money in their pocket. And so the fact that they're able to cover more tables, get more tips, turn tables faster, like all of that matters.

BRIAN
It helps you with churn, it helps you with retention and all of that. 

CHIP
The, the interesting thing about all of this, again, is watching people dawn to this, to this idea, and I often say this to operators cuz I'm a coach. I work with, you know, dozens of operators all over the country. And I said, you guys, the operators will make you the vendors, the companies better. And I said, when you demand more, right? When we, when when operators demand more, right. So the fact that table ordering was, uh, was, oh, we need it. We don't need it. And when we pretty soon discover that, yeah, it's gonna be the status quo mm-hmm. <affirmative> for a whole bunch of restaurants, well then now we need better interface, better user experience. Yeah. We, we know what it's like to have a good experience. We know what it's like to, uh, to swipe on an iPhone versus another sort of, we understand that the experience and when you use a really great, the great kiosks at McDonald's that are sort of like responsive and bright colors and Yeah.

BRIAN
You know, we know that experience. We know what it's like to, to do some of this stuff. And when you talk about customer expectations, right, they're going to expect it to be just as good as the best they've had.

CHIP
They don't care whether McDonald's is a multi-billion dollar corporation, and this is some mom and pop shop that does, you know, half a million dollars in sales every year. It's like they both have access to technology and I think ultimately it's gonna make what you do better, um, and more needed. And it's like one hand washes the other.

BRIAN
Absolutely. And and one of the things that I think is really, really important is that we democratize the technology so that even if you're a single location operator in San Antonio, Texas, um, that you can have and deliver an experience that's on par with those, you know, very large brands. And you know, one, one of the things that I think about to the point about customer expectations, when I scan a QR code and it pulls up a pdf, I die a little bit inside. I'm just like, oh no. And there's a bunch of research that says that actually that that, uh, bill is actually gonna be a much smaller bill size mm-hmm. <affirmative>. And so it's not just about the expectations changing, it's those expecta expectations are impacting your bottom line and the experience of your servers, your staff, like everyone.

CHIP
And see, but here's the, the backside of that. Right. And I know why restaurants do that. They do that because they worked so long on their design of their PDF and they're really proud of it and they should be. And the problem is that we often don't have an equally as beautiful interface. That's something that's on brand, that's all. And I tell him, I said, you have to demand more and they'll create it Yes. To say, Hey, listen, create this so it looks like that. Or create something that makes me never miss that. Right. When you see now, uh, you know, what it's like to order with the pictures or like the, the video icons on, on table ordering, you know, things that are coming out there that things that competitors of yours are doing that's gonna make you, you know, get better. Just like you're doing things that's making competitors sort of like rise to the occasion. You all make each other better. And you know, when I tell the operators, I said, if you need something, it's, you have to demand it. You have to request it and make it known with your customer. You know, the customer support with, uh, with your ae with everybody. He said, this is what we need. Absolutely. This is what we need in order to move forward and be as good as we can be.

BRIAN
Hey, you know, two things that I would say to the, the restaurants and operators out there that are listening. You know, one, you're absolutely right about kind of demanding it. I, I think one thing that really helps us serve them really well is when they tell us the problem that they need solved. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. Um, a lot of times I think folks will show up and they'll have a very specific solution, but, uh, one of the things that I believe our team's responsible for is making sure that we 

understand the problem and what they're trying to achieve and then exploring all the solutions. Even the ones that maybe they haven't thought about. Cause like this is not their day in hundred percent day out job.

CHIP
A hundred percent. The other thing is what you guys spend so long doing, and I know this, who my wife is in SaaS sales and all she does, and she works in the fitness space and so, and she was in fitness for 12 years or whatever, and she knows it so well. And, and she's just, and that's her challenge, is to show them that, listen, I know what you're dealing with and this is what we've got for you. And so getting people to understand that, that they have a problem or to, you know, get them to identify what problems they have so important.

BRIAN
We, we love it. I mean, we, we absolutely love being able to talk to customers, talk to prospective customers, understand what's happening. You know, we obsess about our customers. And one thing that, the other piece of advice that I'd say to any restaurant owner or operator out there occasionally, it's a really good idea to go and, you know, we call eat your own dog food to go and try to book or or order online. Try to make a reservation. You have to find reviews. It's unbelievable how many times people will find like, my address was wrong, my phone number was wrong, it says I'm closed. Yeah.  

CHIP
A hundred percent. Uh, it's, uh, it's so true. Um, listen, I love all of this. Uh, I got three quick questions for you before I let you go. Lightning. Uh, number one, tell me about the last great meal you had.

BRIAN
The last great meal I had oof. Uh, I was at a, a restaurant, uh, called Ember in, uh, Austin, Texas, one of our, our, uh, our clients. And, uh, I mean, just they took such amazing care of the experience. The food was amazing mm-hmm. <affirmative>, but I think especially on the full service side, the experience in delivering that and feeling like you're being taken care of is, is something that unfortunately it, it's not as as common as it should be.

CHIP
I totally agree. Uh, I love that. Uh, tell me about the last great hospitality touch you've had.

BRIAN
The last great hospitality touch. Okay. Um, there's a, there's a bar that I go to occasionally with my wife and, uh, I mean, we've been there maybe four times in the last year. Um, but we came back in and they recognized me and they, they said, Hey, it's so great to have you. I have no idea how, there's no way that they could have, maybe they're just unbelievable with names, but you know, that, that sense of belonging mm-hmm. <affirmative> when you walk into a place and they know you, uh, it's amazing. And conversely, there, there's places that I've been to 40 times and they say, Hey, can we tell you about the menu? Have you ever been here before? And it's just like that dagger to the heart, you're like, oh, come on, please make me feel special.

CHIP
Yeah. Yeah. That's, it was, uh, it's been said by, uh, by somebody way smarter than me. Right. But like, that's all, all your job is to make someone feel special for the time. Right. For an hour, for two hours that they're with you. And there's nothing truer that you can say, we're not feeding people, we're just trying to make people feel special for two hours. Yeah. And uh, what's amazing to me is, um, how little it takes to actually do that.  

BRIAN
Absolutely. And you know, one of the things that my mom always says is, is, you know, feeding someone is an act of love. Um, yeah. And, and just this idea that, that when it's done really well, it, it feels like it's an incredibly vulnerable thing to show up at a stranger's house. Hundred percent. Excuse me. You could poison me. You can do any number of things.

CHIP
Here's something I say in, so I gave two talks yesterday in the show, and one of the talks I gave is all about this luxury mindset. And I defined transactions. And one of the things I say, I said, you know, here's our well cooked piece of halibut. Please give us $32. That's the transaction <laugh>, except there's way more being exchanged. Right. We're, uh, we've prepared it for you, we're gonna serve it to you. We're gonna clean up afterwards. We've provided you a beautiful room, we're taking care of everything for you. Right. The music, the everything. Right. The chef's expertise and experience and the wine cooks, you know, they train to do everything is poised to get you that beautifully cooked piece of hali. So yeah. All you're getting is the piece of fish. Yeah. In exchange for $32. But the other thing I say is that, so that's everything that we are trading away on the operator side, but on the consumer side, you have to realize they're actually trading in addition to their money, the three most valuable resources they have, they never get back their time, their attention and their trust. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. And one of the pieces I talk about trust, they said, think about this. And I, and I always say this, I said, I'm gonna ruin cheeseburgers for everybody in this room. And so I gotta ruin like 250 owners and operators. They sort of laugh. And I said, you know, you're gonna hate me in a minute. And I say, to my knowledge, I do not know one human being on this planet who orders a cheeseburger, gets it, takes the top bun off, takes all the lettuce and tomato and onion, picks up the burger and starts mushing it with their fingers to check for broken glass. Yeah. And yet I think we all recognize how easy it would be to put broken glass into ground beef.

BRIAN
Truly terrifying. But yes.

CHIP
And they all sit there and say, and I say, but you walk into a restaurant that you've never been to before, somebody you've never met that you can't see is preparing something out of sight. And it comes and all you do is pick up your fork in your knife and start cutting and eating it. Or you pick up the burger and you do it. You don't inspect it, you don't do it. And we certainly don't dig our hands through it. And I think that is profound, that the level of trust that we have with our consumer, with our guest, that, that, that level of trust happens millions of times every single day all over the world. And if we don't sort of celebrate that and sort of stop for a second and like catch your breath, it takes my breath away when I think about it. Like the trust that's required that we all do it cuz we all dine out. Yeah. You know, and we, we basically, we never have to say, look, trust me, I know the cook. He's gonna make your burger. It's really good. You don't have to worry that anything's gonna be in there. It's gonna be we, what'd you say? What would you have the burger? Great. How'd you like that Coke? Perfect. We'll take care of it for you. And you walk away.

BRIAN
I, I think that's absolutely right. And you know, one addition to that, the, the point about time, I think people are trusting, uh, you know, my wife and I, we've got three young kids and we might get two date nights a month if we're lucky.

CHIP
It's a big deal.

BRIAN
It's a big deal.

CHIP
And aside from the cost of the babysitter and all That, of course. Yeah. But like the, we only get one or two of these, so let's make it count.

BRIAN
And we need that experience. And, and it's interesting because I, I think, uh, a lot of the conversations that we've had are about, you know, how much can folks raise prices? How much can they do X and y and z to, to kind of adapt? But there is definitely a premium that I will happily pay to know that the experience will be amazing. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. And when I come back to you a second time, I'm trusting that it will be as good as it was the first Time you did all the hard work.

BRIAN
I can't agree more strongly. I I totally agree that it's the point I was making in that talk yesterday. This idea of luxury versus a commodity. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, I said, let's be really clear. And I put up the definition, here's other, the Oxford English dictionary, this is the definition of luxury. I said, tell me, that's not what we do. What we do is not necessary. Water, food, shelter, absolutely necessary. Dining out, having a bunch of well-trained people, cook food in service and take it away. That is a luxury that I love to partake in and I love to participate and give that to people, you know, on the operator side. But let's make no mistake what we serve as a luxury Good. So let's not treat it like a commodity.

CHIP
Absolutely. The loaf of bread. You get to make peanut butter and ch uh, peanut butter jelly sandwiches for your kids, for the three kids that all have to get packed in. You're trying to be, you know, cost aware that that's a, that's a commodity. Yeah. But when you go out with your, and you're willing to pay happily a little bit extra to have a really great experience. That's totally true. Okay, listen, last question for you. Look, five years down the line, I always love when I ask the tech people this <laugh> look five years down the line, what do you think is coming for our industry that other people might not see coming?  

BRIAN
I think one thing that maybe folks might see coming, but they don't necessarily see the degree that it's coming, is there's, we're starting to see really, really, really excellent operators. Um, and those operators are getting it right and they're getting it right time and time again. And so, you know, one of the things that, that I believe will happen is we're gonna see those concepts take off and we're gonna see, you know, maybe a lot more of the same name in multiple locations. That's sort of consolidation, if you will. And the thing that, that I, I hope, and I really want to be true, and we are committed to making sure that this is true for all of our, our customers, is that all of the independence out there can learn not only from their mistakes, but also from the, you know, lessons from their peers. You know, having great coaches like you folks that can help them keep up, I think is really, really important. Right. Um, because I don't wanna live in a world where it's all five brands. I totally agree. Hate that concept. I totally

CHIP
Agree. I, I think, um, I think it's a really great place to end it. I, I think it's well said. Uh, I appreciate you taking the time to speak with me.

BRIAN
Thank you so much. This is wonderful. Thank you. Cool.

**********

CHIP
Once again, I wanna thank you for tuning in to today's episode. I wanna thank all of my guests, everyone who took time, uh, away from the show to be there to sit and chat with me, talk about what they're struggling with, what they're focused on, why they're so excited, uh, about Bar and Restaurant Expo, what some of their takeaways were and, and how they plan on implementing some of those, uh, some of those action items. Right. I hope you got a lot out of this, uh, this episode. If you got questions about the show, I am at the show every single year, uh, live from the stage, uh, giving talks and now podcasting. I hope every single year afterwards. I love it. There's tons to learn. And I think what's again, really unique about that show is that it happens over three days in March, Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, but Monday, the, the expo floor, the trade floor actually isn't even open.

Monday is dedicated all to the speaker sessions, to workshops, to panel discussions. So the people who attend that show, uh, are, are just like you guys. You guys tune in to listen to a podcast, to learn new things, to get new ideas, to spark, uh, spark creativity so that you can take action and, and make an, uh, impact on your business. It's the same reason why all these people go to Bar and Restaurant Expo to learn to be surrounded by a lot of other people who also wanna learn and to listen from people who have some answers and ideas to give them. It's one of my favorite shows of the year to go to because of that energy in the room. And if you haven't attended before, I would love for you to attend next year, and if you wanna sit down and be one of these 10 minute interviews next year, you know how to get in touch, [email protected].  

As always, I wanna close out by reminding you that I'm, uh, taking calls now. If you wanna learn more about my P three mastermind program, then please visit restaurant strategy podcast.com/schedule. Set up a free 30 minute conversation really, truly, absolutely free. I'll get to learn more about your, uh, more about you and your restaurant. You'll get to ask some questions about the program. Uh, we'll come to some, uh, some sort of conclusions. You'll see if you're a good fit for the program and if not, there's no pressure. Hopefully you will come away from that call with a little bit of value, things that you can implement into your business right away. Again, I thank you for being here and I will see you next time.